SERIOUS SILLINESS: Wookieepedia (with @WookOfficial AKA Jordan)

[00:00:00] JOSH: Welcome to Trash Compactor. I'm Josh and we here at Trash Compactor. I'd like to think we know a lot about Star Wars, but even the best of us have lapses of memory or corners of the universe, the expanded universe that just simply remain unexplored. And when we're trying to remember the canon name of the Wolfman in the Cantina, the circumstances that led to the night of Poe Damon's conception or when our favorite Glup Shitto made their first appearance, there is one place to go to find what you're looking for.

[00:00:29] Wookieepedia. Wookieepedia as the name suggests is the go-to Wiki encyclopedia for all things Star Wars, which as of this recording currently has unique entries. For comparison, uh, Memory Alpha, the go-to Star Trek Wiki has just over 54,000 entries. So whether you're looking for behind the scenes info, in- universe lore of either the cannon and de canonized variety. If the planet Kamino doesn't appear in the Wookieepedia archives, then it simply must not exist. And I'm so happy to be joined today by one of the moderators of Wookieepedia, the person behind the @WookOfficial on Twitter account, Jordan, AKA Supreme Emperor, uh, which do you prefer Jordan or Supreme Emperor?

[00:01:16] JORDAN: I'm gonna let the host pick on that cause I'm good with either or

[00:01:19] JOSH: Okay. I would love to, , start referring to you as Supreme Emperor, but I have a feeling that would start to feel weird for me pretty quickly. So, so I'm just gonna go with Jordan, if that's all right with you.

[00:01:29] JORDAN: That's totally fine. Thanks for having us on here.

[00:01:31] JOSH: So to be clear, you are not the only moderator of Wookieepedia. There, there are several of you, right?

[00:01:37] JORDAN: Yeah, I know there's a, there's a very large community that, um, that helps keep Wookieepedia running, um, consisting of 12 other, uh, administrators, um, which is essentially all it means is we have access to a few more buttons. We have the ability to delete pages, UN delete pages, basically just a couple little technical buttons, but in terms of the actual community itself, um, that consists of several hundred absolutely amazing individuals.

[00:02:03] JOSH: No. Yeah, I'm sure the, the level of detail on some of the entries, really amazes me sometimes. Um, this may be redundant, but if you'll indulge, could you just explain for our listeners just very briefly what Wookieepedia, like what it is, for example, I know my mom listens to this podcast and I'm sure she has no idea what it is.

[00:02:23] so if you could, describe it, like you're explaining it to my mom.

[00:02:26] JORDAN: So in short version, um, if Wikipedia is the book of everything, Fandom is the rest of the library and Wookieepedia is one specific book in that library, the book that covers all things from the Star Wars universe.

[00:02:41] JOSH: So when you say fandom, you're, referring to Fandom.org?

[00:02:45] JORDAN: Yeah. That's the one. So Fandom is the company that hosts, uh, Wookieepedia and pretty much every other Wiki site, such as, uh, you referenced earlier, Memory Alpha, um, they host pretty much all of those.

[00:02:58] JOSH: And they used to be, uh, Wikia. Is that correct?

[00:03:01] JORDAN: yeah, so it was formerly Wikia. And then prior to that, they were Wiki Cities back in like the mid-2000s.

[00:03:07] JOSH: Got it, got it. And, Wookieepedia has been running for, for quite a long time. Right?

[00:03:11] JORDAN: Yeah. So I believe it was March of 2005 that the site was first actually created. Um, and that was actually after, there was a lot of discussion on Wookieepedia about how in depth they should go when covering things like Star Wars and other fictional universe is, you know, do they cover that random background character that doesn't have a name?

[00:03:30] Do they stick with just kind of the main characters and like a brief overview of the plot? Um, and the general consensus ended up being just cover the big things. Don't worry about, you know, unidentified who Gib number seven.

[00:03:41] JOSH: Right.

[00:03:42] JORDAN: And that's what, uh, and that's what led to the creation of what was at the time called the Star Wars Wiki.

[00:03:47] Um, so one of Wookieepedia founders, I believe it was Chad Barbara. He reached out to, Wiki cities at the time, um, about creating a Star Wars specific site. Um, and after a few weeks of discussion and work on that, the Star Wars Wiki was created.

[00:04:03] JOSH: Got it. So was the Star Wars Wiki, which later became the current Wookieepedia? Was that, always the only, Star Wars Wiki or there, there other competitors along, the line. I know some other franchises have, have several sort of, competing wikis.

[00:04:19] JORDAN: So in terms of actual wikis, there are a couple other ones here and there, nothing that covers kind of the same detail as we do. Um, a lot of them just tend to be, someone's kind of hyper fixated on something for a little bit, made a couple of pages for it, and then just abandoned it. Um, but historically there have always been a couple other sites.

[00:04:35] So back in the day, there was like the completely unofficial Star Wars encyclopedia. Um, Lucasfilm has their own internal Holocron continuity database. Um, and I'm sure there's kind of a few others here and there spread out throughout the vastness of the internet.

[00:04:49] JOSH: What do you think makes you guys the most visible and successful? It's gotta be the name, right? I mean, you

[00:04:54] JORDAN: I like to think, I like to think it's the name. I think, I think this name definitely got better traction than the alternative that it could have been, which was Wickettpedia.

[00:05:02] JOSH: Oh. You know what? --I,

[00:05:05] JORDAN: I think this one gets this one kind of this one rolls off the tongue a little bit better.

[00:05:09] JOSH: As charming as Wickettpedia sounds. I think Wookieepedia it is the superior name. so that's absolutely true. So, have you been working, moderating Wookieepedia since the beginning? Or when did you become involved?

[00:05:23] JORDAN: no. So I first started actually reading the site back in probably mid 2007, um, around when I picked up a copy of air to the empire. And I just started kind of going down that rabbit hole. Um, and I would use Wookieepedia to kind of fill in the gaps between books. If say I only found books two and five in a series.

[00:05:41] It was okay. I'll read those. And I'll fill in the gaps. 2008, I made a couple little edits here and there didn't really dive in until about 2011. When I joined the sites at the time our chat was hosted on IRC. Um, and after I kind of hopped into that and started getting, you know, the community, I just kind of kept going down that proverbial rabbit hole.

[00:06:04] JOSH: That's fascinating. so, uh, one of my questions, I was gonna ask what your Star Wars origin story was. Um, am I correct in understanding that the first piece of Star Wars media that you sort of fell in love with was Heir to the Empire by Timothy Zahn

[00:06:17] JORDAN: Uh, that's correct. So like growing up, like I knew like kind of the key plot points that, you know, Darth Vader is Luke's father, et cetera, et cetera. But it was, it was that series that kind of really hooked me. It was just something about the way that he had written it. Um, I mean, to quote

[00:06:31] it was, so artistically done.

[00:06:33] Um, but that was kind of what pulled me into that universe.

[00:06:36] JOSH: That's fascinating. So, so it wasn't the movies, it was the expanded universe. That was sort of your, your way in.

[00:06:42] JORDAN: Yeah. And that was always kind of my, my go to, so first it was the, Heir to the Empire trilogy, then the Jedi Academy trilogy. and then it just kind of kept going through that rabbit hole and just finding quite literally anything I could find.

[00:06:54] JOSH: So at what point did you sit down and actually watch the, films.

[00:06:59] JORDAN: Um, I probably, I definitely had seen them at some

[00:07:03] JOSH: Oh, okay. So you had

[00:07:03] JORDAN: was growing up. Yeah.

[00:07:05] So like I knew kind of the key moments, but it just never really stuck in the back of my head. Uh, this was kind of what really kind of pulled me into that universe.

[00:07:13] JOSH: so what was it, was it the covers, uh, of what, what sort of drew you to it? You saw it there on the shelf and you just thought, huh?

[00:07:19] JORDAN: Yeah. So I just, I found it in a bookstore and just thought, you know what, this let's start this out. This looks interesting. And then it was just something about his writing style. It just, it just kind of sucks you into that universe. You just kind of start visualizing it as you're reading it. And it, it just kind of pulls you into this journey.

[00:07:34] JOSH: Oh, that's fascinating. Yeah. That's a good reminder that, that, everyone has their own way in their own thing that made them fall in love with the universe. It's not, and it's not always the movies that, that's something that, that I forget sometimes.

[00:07:47] JORDAN: Yeah. And that's always the beautiful thing about Star Wars is that there's just quite literally, there is something for everyone in this universe. It doesn't matter what you like, what you dislike, all that it takes is you, you like something to do with Star Wars.

[00:07:58] JOSH: that actually gets us something, sort of interesting because for me, I come from like a film making sort of a background. So for me, it's always been very hard to separate the cinema from Star Wars. but that said, like, I obviously know that there's, voluminous, non, screen material very, well regarded and stands on their own merits and has, you know, incredibly loyal followings.

[00:08:21] But, so, you know, one of the reasons that I wanted to have you on, is because I am very fascinated with the other aspects of the broader Star Wars multimedia universe, or whatever you wanna call it that so many people love, because it is a world it's, it's a whole universe.

[00:08:36] It may not literally exists, but it certainly exists in our minds, which for, for all intents and purposes is, just as, good as is just as real. so, maybe I answered my own question, but one of the things I wanted to ask you was where do you think this fannish impulse to catalog everything in this fictional universe comes from? I mean, basically, why do you think something like, Wookieepedia exists? Like I get for say the Lucasfilm story group where, they're working with multiple writers and multiple projects.

[00:09:07] They need to have like a centralized database to keep everything straight. But there is a different sort of fervor, I think that exists with the work that goes on, building out Wookieepedia or something like a Memory Alpha for Star Trek. Like where do you think that impulse comes from to catalog of fictional universe?

[00:09:28] JORDAN: I think it really comes down to my personal thought is it comes down to kind of two things. And that's this kind of desire to kind of exist within this larger fan community where it's just a bunch of people that love this same franchise as you, and you're just kind of working collaboratively together.

[00:09:44] Um, and then on top of that, you have the desire to not just document, but to celebrate this franchise that we've all kind of come to grow and love. It's, you're kind of, you're honoring the creators of it by taking the works that they've made and ensuring that other people can access this and, you know, maybe learn from it.

[00:10:02] JOSH: No. Yeah, that makes sense. Uh, so yeah, um, celebration and community, and in making that resource available and also a community effort, it kind of encourages the growth of the community. It encourages others to join in.

[00:10:18] JORDAN: Yeah. And then you end up with this kind of massive community where it's, it's not even always about documenting new things. It's. You know, it's connecting with those people that you've worked to get with for several years, it's meeting new people and helping kind of helping them get started along their journey.

[00:10:33] It's, uh, it just becomes this kind of much larger community that supports each other through thick and thin, uh, you know, on the good days and the bad days, like there's people on our site that I've, you know, worked with quite literally on a daily basis, um, for like 10 years now, who I know as well as anyone I know, you know, offline, you kinda get that

[00:10:52] community that just kind of is always there to, to help build each other up.

[00:10:57] JOSH: no, of course that's really special and that's, and 10 years that's, I mean, that's pretty incredible. Um, So, so in doing this for, 10 years or over 10 years, has a broader picture of the Star Wars universe kind of emerged for you. Like, have you noticed any like trends or themes or tropes that maybe weren't apparent or visible to you before?

[00:11:18] but then now seeing sort of the totality of everything, like, are there, connections that you've made that, you know, sort of someone that isn't seeing, that view, might miss?

[00:11:30] JORDAN: Uh, for me personally, probably more of just an appreciation for the artistry of all of it. Um, you know, you have all of these different authors, these actors, actresses directors, writers, um, artists, all working in this kind of giant collaborative sandbox. And while they're writing styles, their, you know, while their styles might be wildly different, they all just mesh together perfectly within this one giant puzzle.

[00:11:57] Um,

[00:11:58] even if they're even if you know, the way they do things is different, it just kind of all just fits together perfectly. Most of the time

[00:12:04] JOSH: most of the time, yes, that's um, you know, and there's like a certain hierarchy to the of, of canonicity, is a word I loathe, but it's sort of a, I mean, you can't, you can't really avoid it, but whatever's on screen in the movies or the shows is sort of on top and then right.

[00:12:22] beneath that, I think, The cartoons, even though I think Now the line, is very blurred, especially with this, very intertwined, interconnected, live action universe that that is, being created. That is, quote unquote canonizing officially in live action.

[00:12:37] A lot of the animated material. Um, and then I would say sort of below that are the novels and, the comics, so. Something, for example, in the Obi-Wan Kenobi show, contradicted, something that happened in an Obi-Wan Kenobi comic from a, few years earlier, what appears in the Obi-Wan Kenobi show,

[00:12:57] that's the quote unquote real version. Is that sort of right? Or am

[00:13:01] JORDAN: Yeah. So what we would do in a situation like that. Um, so anything that's, you know, as you said, TV movies, that's, that's kind of the first priority. So if say a new movie comes out and overrides a novel, then the movie takes priority. What we try to do is find ways for it to kind of work together. So if it doesn't like directly contradict it, it can just be seen as kind of.

[00:13:23] You know, a different recollection of events. Um,

[00:13:28] JOSH: A certain point of view, you might say.

[00:13:29] JORDAN: yeah, exactly. A certain point of view. Um, yeah, so that's generally how we try to handle it. And obviously, you know, in a universe that's large, there's, there's gonna be times where mistakes get made, where maybe somebody didn't necessarily know about a certain element of, uh, one particular comic when they were writing a show and you know what it's gonna happen. it's, it's

[00:13:49] just inevitable in a universe this large.

[00:13:51] JOSH: No. of course. And also, you know, sometimes, I think part of the fun of it sometimes is, coming up with creative ways to reconcile contradictions like that. I know that that for some might like fall under the category of a term, like, like fan wank or something, it's like, it's sort of like, you know, we don't need to explain this, but sometimes it's fun.

[00:14:10] Like, um, this might not be a good example, but there was an explanation for, you know, why in Attack of the Clones, R2 has these jets that allows him to fly when in the original trilogy that would've come in handy many, many times, and he never seemed to have that ability. so in, um, I forget, I forget what it was.

[00:14:28] It was like, um, the like Hyperspace News or whatever that I think they were writing, , in the lead up to the release of Episode III they just had a little note that, um, The Astromech Company has issued a warning that all R2 units of this, designation, the warranty on the rocket jets runs out after 20 years.

[00:14:45] And it's just like, you know, it's little bits like that that are actually kind of fun and charming, you know? It's like, yeah, it's silly, but that's, I mean, that's part of the fun of it.

[00:14:54] JORDAN: Honestly, one, one of our, one of the favorite kind of slogans we have on site is that it's it's silliness taken seriously. Um, and we pride ourselves on finding the absolute, silliest things we can about this universe and having a good laugh together. If any listeners haven't, I, I encourage you to look up Argo six.

[00:15:12] I, I encourage it. No context.

[00:15:14] JOSH: Argo six, the number six?

[00:15:16] JORDAN: Yeah.

[00:15:17] JOSH: Okay. I'm gonna look it up right now, cuz I don't even know what you're talking about.

[00:15:19] JORDAN: I'm very glad that you haven't seen the other podcast that I've mentioned it a couple of times, so I'm very glad you don't know what it is yet.

[00:15:26] JOSH: Okay. I'm not sure if that's a good thing or bad. AR six was a terrestrial astronomical object. The climate of which featured several seasons, all members of a family residing nice stability, maintain miniature farms in their mouths, which helped provide them with sustenance, the farm and the mouth of one member of the family. I'm not gonna read this entire thing on.

[00:15:44] Oh, I see. Oh, I see. so this was mentioned in the 1993 Monsters and Aliens from George Lucas a publication that combines creature designs and photographs on various projects of George Lucas. This that is, I love that. I I love that with original text by Bob Carrau you know, what's interesting about that. when I was a kid, I had, I forget what it was called.

[00:16:07] It was like The Guide to The Star Wars Universe, Second Edition or something. I think it was from 1994. So it was pre prequels. but it had like, all of the info from the Marvel comics and the Droids and Ewoks cartoon and all of that. And, um, a lot of the stuff from West End Games and I pored over that thing. you know, and it's just funny to think about like now, like that was what, uh, geez, almost 30 years ago now, but the, the, and that was a pretty thick, encyclopedia, but now, you guys are nearing 180,000 entries. I can only imagine like, how, how many pages do you think a hard copy of Wookieepedia would have to be, like if you were to print out every entry, times new Roman in size 12 how long do you think that would be that book

[00:16:57] JORDAN: You know what, just, just for fun here, let me just pull up the longest article on site right now.

[00:17:02] JOSH: which is, uh, what,

[00:17:03] JORDAN: I believe it's now the, it is now the canon version of Anakin Skywalker, thanks to a recent update.

[00:17:08] JOSH: well, that makes sense.

[00:17:10] JORDAN: if we were to print this page,

[00:17:13] JOSH: and I'll bring up my

[00:17:14] JORDAN: this one singular page would work out to 508 pages.

[00:17:19] JOSH: Wow.

[00:17:20] JORDAN: Some of that is some of that is a little bit of dead space just because it doesn't

[00:17:24] JOSH: Sure. So, so, so let's say, so let's say like, if it was formatted correctly, like let's say, you know, 400

[00:17:32] JORDAN: Yeah, I would say, yeah, let's, let's predict, let's assume somewhere around there.

[00:17:36] JOSH: Okay, well, so if the longest one is, let's say 400 pages by itself, let's say maybe the average is like, would be 25 pages. And by the way, I am just, I'm totally pulling these figures outta my butt. So, so I apologize. So, uh, just doing some back up the napkin math here, if we were to multiply 25 pages by the 177,294 entries, you would have a, a 4 million, 430, 2,500 page.

[00:18:11] hard copy book.

[00:18:13] JORDAN: I, you know what, you know what I would buy that.

[00:18:15] JOSH: Well, but the, the beauty of it is you don't have to because it's all right here.

[00:18:20] JORDAN: take note Disney, um, just create a, uh, create a hard cover copy of Wookieepedia. Then we do Wookieepedia: Second Edition. Now Third Edition.

[00:18:30] JOSH: No, well, that was, that was one of the things about the, um, The Guide to Star Wars that I felt, really badly about because once new media started to come out, like that's already, an obsolete, reference work. , I do believe there was a third edition that, came out in 2000 in the wake of The Phantom Menace.

[00:18:49] But I mean, after that, like the amount of new lore, new characters, new storylines, new, new, everything, subsequent to 1999, like there's just no way to feasibly. I mean, you know, we just said like, you would need a book 43 million pages long for it to be the definitive, encyclopedia.

[00:19:08] so what was it you said you like to take silly things seriously. Was that what, what you

[00:19:13] said, uh, your sort of,

[00:19:14] JORDAN: the name actually. Yeah. So the name actually, it comes from, um, one of our users, Virgin SC, Virgin scatter. He created a page called silliness taken seriously, which is part of his user page where it just documents. Some of the things he's found most amusing, and we've kind of made this, our, this has kind of become our standard just for finding the kind of weirdest things we can like, uh, like Corrobor, which was a simulation where you can feel the sensation of becoming a starship or, uh, the Senator Jar Jar Binks's Commemorative Drinking Cup, um, all the way to the most comfortable chair ever designed everyone's good old favorite--

[00:19:51] JOSH: Wait I'm sorry, these are actual entries on the,

[00:19:54] JORDAN: are, these are actual entries reading from the top down here, we have mashed protatoes, Corrobor, which is the starship simulation Sprite, Coca-Cola, Minute Maid and Dasani, uh, lemonade. Uh, the Senator Jar Jar Binks's Commemorative Drinking Cup, Rainbow, which is a planet that was designed in a contest back in the day.

[00:20:14] Um, The Most Comfortable Chair Ever Designed,

[00:20:17] uh,

[00:20:18] JOSH: is the most comfortable chair ever designed?

[00:20:20] JORDAN: The Most Comfortable Chair Ever Designed. It was a gigantic floating rocking pillow. The new Republic pilot Han solo kept the chair in the center of his sky house on the planet, Bespin and 5 ABY, Solo hosted is a, a house warming party at the sky house for the most comfortable chair ever designed was reserved for his guest of honor, the human Leia Organa.

[00:20:40] JOSH: Oh, this is from Zorba, the huts revenge.

[00:20:42] Oh yeah. Classic. Because I remember like the, the subheading for The Official Guide, to Star Wars was, um, was something like from AT-AT to Zorba the Hutt, like, like that was the tagline. So, Zorba the Hutt has always really stuck in my, in my mind. um, that's very funny. Um, so yeah, so is that why, like, you know, I always find it very amusing when I see an entry, like not only on Wookieepedia, but also I'm a Star Trek fan so I frequent Memory Alpha quite often, but I always find it rather amusing when they have an entry on like shoes.

[00:21:20] Or, you know, I noticed on, Wookieepedia, there's actually an entry on, breasts of all things. And I'm just wonder , I'm just, I'm just wondering, does that come from that sort of ethos of, of, of silliness that, that it's just sort of, well, let's list all of the examples of breasts in Star Wars though.

[00:21:41] I have to say, I have to give you guys, credit the featured image for, the breast entry is shirtless Adam Driver as Kylo Ren from The Last Jedi. So kudos on that. Um, But yeah, I mean, , like there are, certain things, that don't necessarily need defining, like, especially in the context of a fandom Wiki, but, but is that sort of where that, comes from that, that sort of silly impulse, to keep it fun?

[00:22:05] JORDAN: Yeah, I would say probably somewhere between that kind of silly impulse, just document, literally everything and that desire to quite literally document everything. If it exists, we have to document it. That's probably, it's probably somewhere between that.

[00:22:20] JOSH: Sorry, I got distracted. I was just, reading the breast entry. It's very funny. The quote at the top that, that opens the entry is "She needs to be fed. I'll take her aft." Lyra Erso tells Galen Erso that their infant daughter Jyn needs to nurse. It's just like, it's just like, that's hilarious to me.

[00:22:37] Um,

[00:22:39] do you ever interact with the mods over at, , Memory Alpha, the Star Trek Wiki, or any of the other wikis? Like, like, do you guys ever, compare notes or, are you all in like a discord together or do you sort of keep to yourselves?

[00:22:49] JORDAN: So funny enough. So Fandom actually does have kind of their own discord server, um, where a lot of us do actually kind of interact, not necessarily in like a coordination sense, but more of just a kinda, just getting to know one another, like, um, so fandom did an annual what they called their community connect in LA this year, where they bring a bunch of people from, um, from around their various communities together for an in person, uh, summit.

[00:23:12] Um, so while I was there, I ended up getting to actually hang out with, uh, two of the admins over at Memory Alpha, and

[00:23:20] we just all had a great time. Just kind of, we just had a great time getting to kind of know each other a little bit better. Um, cause you know, it's, you can, you can know someone online and then you get to see 'em in person.

[00:23:29] And it's just great to kind of put a face to that name that you've seen so many times.

[00:23:33] JOSH: Oh, no, of course, of course. Um, So I gotta ask you, I'm very curious, especially because, you said that your gateway to the larger world of Star Wars was, was Heir to the Empire. What was your, personal reaction and the larger reaction at, Wookieepedia, when, the old expanded universe was de canonized subsequent to the Disney acquisition?

[00:23:58] JORDAN: I think for the community at large, it was more, Oh no! How do we actually, how do we handle this? Um, and obviously, you know, at the time, no one really knew what to expect. Like, is it gonna be everything? Is it just gonna be certain things? Um, so the, the first couple of days was a little bit of a, a little bit of a mad scramble as it were, but everyone just kind of handled it in their own way.

[00:24:23] Like some people took that as their chance to kind of maybe explore other franchises. Um, others found it

[00:24:29] as a way to others found it as a way to kind of jump into Star Wars on the ground level. So to speak, um, with kind of a whole new

[00:24:35] continuity where you can kind of, you can kind of keep up a little bit better instead of having to go through 30 years of material.

[00:24:41] Um, so while the community itself had, you know, all of these different kind of opinions and views on it, in terms of the actual site itself, it was more just, oh no, what do we do? How do we document this?

[00:24:52] JOSH: Yeah, well, I mean, you guys, I feel you came up with a really elegant solution. You, have the Canon designation and the Legends designation.

[00:25:00] JORDAN: Yeah. So there ended up being a lot of, kind of discussion about what kind of form it should take. And that was what we'd settled on was this kind of tab system. Um, other ideas included things like, you know, do we just put everything all onto one page? Thankfully, we didn't do that load times would be horrendous on the Anakin Skywalker article if we did that.

[00:25:17] so yeah, this was kind of just the most elegant solution, even the backend coding on it was really a bit of a hack job.

[00:25:23] JOSH: So how did you feel when Thrawn was re canonized in, uh, was it, Clone Wars or Rebels that he was he first he

[00:25:31] JORDAN: Rebels. So I, yeah,

[00:25:33] for, yeah, I think the only word I can use to sum that up is just joy. It's like I get to see this character that like, I absolutely loved growing up and I get to see this character up on the big screen. Just kind of standing there, just kind of hand on the chin, just looking at the art.

[00:25:49] JOSH: Well, and then I imagine you must have had a similar reaction when Ashoka said his name in, The Mandalorian.

[00:25:57] JORDAN: Yeah, that was a nice little, that was a nice little throwback there. And it was kind of that one moment where was like in absolutely no way. Did I see that coming.

[00:26:05] JOSH: Me, either me either, like, it was like, oh, wow, they're really going there. they're really doing this.

[00:26:11] JORDAN: That was kind of that moment where you have to stop for a second and you're like, did I hear that right? Let me go back and do that again. And yes, I did hear that, right. That was Thrawn.

[00:26:19] JOSH: Um, so I don't know, how plugged in you were, today, but it seems like they've officially announced, , the casting for the live action Ezra Bridger for the Ashoka show.

[00:26:30] JORDAN: oh, I

[00:26:30] thought I saw something on Twitter.

[00:26:32] Who did they, who did they end up actually casting there?

[00:26:34] JOSH: There's a Hollywood Reporter article, that dropped the news,

[00:26:38] JORDAN: Oh, Eman Esfandi.

[00:26:40] JOSH: Yes. Yes.

[00:26:41] JORDAN: Oh,

[00:26:41] cool. That's a good choice.

[00:26:44] JOSH: He looks, just like the older version of him. Um, And in the same Twitter rumblings, they were also saying that announcement for the casting of the live action Thrawn is also not far behind.

[00:26:56] So, you might, wanna have a change of underwear ready for that. Uh, whenever they drop that, I'm very exci so, I mean, look like, like as much as I say that I'm more of a movie guy than an EU guide, like in the nineties, like the EU was, was at least 50% of what Star Wars was for me.

[00:27:13] And I think since 1991 or two or whatever, all been dreaming of seeing Grand Admiral Thrawn in live action on screen. So, I mean, this is gonna be something special.

[00:27:26] JORDAN: Yeah, and it's just, it's gonna be so great to see kind of that, you know, childhood idolation kind of coming to life up on the screen. We're very spoiled. Now, like

[00:27:35] back in the day, you know,

[00:27:36] JOSH: very spoiled.

[00:27:37] JORDAN: yeah, back in the day, you'd have to wait years and years to get a new, you know, a new movie, a new show. You get, you know, a couple of books a year. Now we're getting like four different live action shows in a year.

[00:27:48] And it's just fantastic for everything, except my free time.

[00:27:52] JOSH: Yes. Well, that's certainly true. You know, it's funny, like I, Today was, the Disney, conference or

[00:27:58] whatever it's called, uh, yeah, yeah, D 23. And, people on Star Wars, Twitter were lamenting that, there was no announcement about any, , theatrical Star Wars project. And my reaction was, you know what, I'm actually kind of fine with that.

[00:28:14] I'm actually, more than fine with that, because along the lines of what you were saying, while I, you know, am thrilled that there's this, vast amount of new Star Wars media that's coming fast and furious. I mean, for crying out loud, like we have a live, a new live action show basically year round, which is absolutely mindboggling like if you told, me that in 1996 or whatever, that, that there would come a time where there would be brand new live action Star Wars, where you would see Luke Skywalker on TV from the comfort of your living room after Return of the Jedi

[00:28:48] JORDAN: never would've believed it.

[00:28:50] JOSH: And see, Boba Fett riding a rancor smashing up Mos Eisley my brain would've melted and exploded and imploded all those things. so that said, you know, there was something about, and again, I could, be biased because of the era in which, you know, I became a Star Wars fan where there was very little, like, it was like a, like, every new comic was like an event.

[00:29:14] Every new novel was like, oh, did you get the book? Did you get the book? but. There was something special about the movies. There was something, the fact that they were so rare you know, there was 16 years in between Return of the Jedi and The Phantom Menace, which for me was my entire life Um, uh, so, there is something to be said in my mind, um, in my opinion, uh, that, you know, maybe waiting a few years for a new movie is not such, is not such a terrible thing.

[00:29:40] It feels like it'll make it more of an event that's, you know, worthy of a, of an event, rather than like a sort of a manufactured event, if that makes any sense.

[00:29:48] JORDAN: It would give us the chance to actually document everything. If I, a movie before we have to go into another movie.

[00:29:54] JOSH: Oh, well, that's true. Oh, well, that's certainly true. outta curiosity, if you could, describe the, process when something new comes out. So for example, the first episode of the new Andor series is about to drop, What's going on behind the scenes, like, who creates the entry for Andor episode one?

[00:30:10] is it one of you guys? Is it whoever happens to get there first? And I imagine there has to be some level of quality control and I'm sure everyone wants to be the first one to get all that information there. So, so over these next, nine weeks or, of new lore, new show, what is that gonna be like for you guys? that gonna work?

[00:30:30] JORDAN: Well, so with everything being, uh, entirely fan run and volunteer based, um, everyone on site's kind of working around their own personal lives, be it, you know, their work scheduled or school schedule, you know, family events. Um, so for the most part, it's just kind of, whoever happens to get to it first. Um, but it's interesting that like, when a show comes out like Obi-Wan Kenobi, for example, when the first two episodes premiered, it was the morning that I was gonna be flying out to, uh, LA.

[00:30:59] So I stayed up all night. I watched it slightly regretted it after like a five hour flight, but I made it, um, But as I'm on the plane and I'm looking at the site it's oh, Hey. So that, that unidentified, uh, clone trooper that we just saw on the episode, he already has a fully fleshed out page, this dropped three hours ago,

[00:31:19] JOSH: Amazing.

[00:31:19] JORDAN: and it's just kind, and it's inter it's just interesting to kind of get, to see what people tend to kind of hyper fixate on.

[00:31:24] Like it's not necessarily always those larger kind of well known characters. It's often kind of that background thing that just kind of catches someone's eye. And then, you know, social media just kind of runs with it.

[00:31:35] JOSH: I mean, that's certainly true. Like, the whole prequel meme phenomenon, uh, is something that fascinates me very much that I'm trying to figure out a way to explore in an episode. I just need to find the right, people to converse with about it because, it's like half ironic, but like half like very earnest and very genuine, like, the weird, quirky, strange things that, as you say, people just glom onto and hyper fixate on. is always very fascinating to see what those things are because you really, you can't, predict what those are.

[00:32:06] JORDAN: Yeah. Yeah. And it just kind of tends to be, not even, like you said, something you can predict. It's just kind of, all it really takes is just somebody happens to see one particular scene latch onto that one moment and they just have kind of that they hit the perfect algorithm on social media and it just gets kind of picked up by everybody.

[00:32:23] JOSH: so going back to my initial, question, it, it sounds like, as Andor drops as the new episodes and the story unfolds, you are sort of going to be watching the entries kind of, construct in real time, without you even. having a hand in it.

[00:32:41] It seems like

[00:32:42] JORDAN: Yeah, we'll just get to kinda see everything popping up, everything, pop up just kind of bit by bit as these episodes are going on. The fact that they're dropping three at once, honestly kind of terrifies me, but you know what? We handle two Obi-Wans at a time. So, you know what we'll we'll handle three and indoor episodes. Is there gonna be anyone getting any sleep? Probably not.

[00:33:03] JOSH: You do feel a certain, a certain obligation to, deliver, right? Like you feel like you have expectations on you

[00:33:11] JORDAN: Yeah. And it's um, yeah, and we kind of, we want people to be able to kind of come here immediately to find that character they just saw, we don't want someone to, you know, see and, or, and be like, oh, who's he talking to? And look it up. Oh, this article doesn't exist. No. We want people to be able to kind of come here, just look, oh, that's that guy.

[00:33:31] He doesn't have a name yet. He's unidentified human male. Number six.

[00:33:36] JOSH: right, right. So, but so, but, what's lovely though, is that it sounds like you guys have a really, large supportive community that, spreads the workload around. So that's, that sense that like you're all in the trenches together that must help, prevent it from, veering into no longer fun territory.

[00:33:55] JORDAN: Yeah. And that's kind of the beautiful thing about having this kind of vast community is you can kind of, you can take a break. You don't have to do everything yourself. If one night you wanna just kind of kick back and relax. It's fine. We're all volunteers here. Everyone needs to take the time that they need to, to de-stress, you know, we're all doing this for the fun, not for the, uh, not for the headache.

[00:34:15] JOSH: So I know that the Lucasfilm story group has their Holocron uh, which I believe you referred to earlier. But, , are you aware of any, Star Wars, novelists, or, you know, writers on even any of the shows, using Wookieepedia as a reference while they're writing or creating something in the, the canon universe?

[00:34:34] JORDAN: Uh, I mean, honestly, I wanna say quite literally everybody, um, no, it's like, like

[00:34:40] EV hon quite honestly, like every, every kind of every author, every artist, every writer that I've talked to, like through, through social media, through our discord, um, in personnel, like at conventions, like everyone has said, you know, oh yeah.

[00:34:55] You know, I used Wookieepedia when I was creating, you know, insert really cool project here. And it's kind of beautiful when like, like we've got a couple of them just that just kind of hang out in our discord channel and, you know, someone will just come in and start kind of throwing a bunch of random behind the scenes facts about a novel they just wrote.

[00:35:10] And it's like, oh, that's really cool.

[00:35:12] JOSH: That's very cool. That's very cool. How do you become a member of the discord or I guess that's the real question is, how do you partake in the community? How do you contribute?

[00:35:21] JORDAN: And that's the beauty of it. Um, quite literally all it takes is a desire to help improve the site. I'd recommend creating a, uh, creating your own account first with Fandom, just so that your edits can be attributed to you also. So we can yell at you if you make a mistake. Um, but that's really all it is is you just, you make an account, you can join our discord if you'd like to or not.

[00:35:42] Um, we have a lot of tutorial pages available that kind of help give an overview of how to edit, how, um, how kind of the source code works. Um, basic formatting, um, more advanced formatting. Everything's very structured and well laid out. So it's not like you're just kind of diving and blind. It's you have all of these to help you.

[00:36:00] Learn how to do it.

[00:36:02] JOSH: That makes sense.

[00:36:03] JORDAN: Yeah. And the discord, anyone can join that at any point. Um, if you go to our site, you'll see a, you'll see a link to it on the right rail. If you're viewing on, uh, desktop browser.

[00:36:12] JOSH: Got it. Cool. Very cool. do you have like, a pet entry or favorite entry that you sort of like to keep an eye on and maintain, or that you're sort of, protective of or one that you're particularly proud of?

[00:36:23] JORDAN: I wouldn't say overly protective per se, but one of our favorites was definitely the, uh, the unidentified like Twi'lek majordomo from The Book of Boba Fett. and I had actually, I used that as a tested for a, uh, for kind of a program that I created, which was what we've do, what I've dubbed Wookie Nights.

[00:36:39] Um, initially it was just kind of a little group movie night where we would just kind of all hang out, watch movie together, just kinda enjoy some casual conversation. And then that kind of turned into this kind of group editing project where every week after an episode, we would copy that entire article into a Google doc.

[00:36:56] We would collectively group watch it on Disney plus, you know, after we'd already kind of seen it ourselves and we would just work on creating the next edition of this entry together. Um, and we ended up like, after every, every time an episode dropped within a couple hours of that coming out, you would have the major Domos article completely updated for that episode.

[00:37:17] And it just kind of just, it was beautiful to kind of see what we can accomplish when we're all just working together on this one goal.

[00:37:23] JOSH: That sounds like ton of fun.

[00:37:26] JORDAN: Oh, it was, it was a blast as it's something I really need to find more time to, to host more of that's the one thing we've all collectively agreed is that there's free time.

[00:37:35] JOSH: Yeah, no, no. I can attest to that. Um, certainly, um, perhaps you've already answered this question, but, uh, if you wouldn't mind, sharing, what was the biggest controversy or debate you guys had internally? Was it the Canon versus Legends thing? Or was there something else?

[00:37:53] JORDAN: If we're gonna go controversy. I mean, I won't mince words last year, there was a lot of, kind of bad things that went down, um, where there's a few members of our community that were dead naming a Star Wars artist who had since changed their name and, uh, were using

[00:38:09] JOSH: Oh,

[00:38:11] JORDAN: were very much in the wrong, um, and that led to two of our administrators being removed at the request of our community.

[00:38:18] Um, and that just kind of created this whole new era where everything just got better. People started kind of working together more. We started figuring out ways that we could be more open and accessible. Um, we just kind of figured out ways to be better than we were and to learn from, to learn from those mistakes that happened.

[00:38:42] JOSH: well, I mean, first off, I'm sorry that, uh, you had to go through that, but it sounds like, what ended up happening? It, it created a, healthier, more supportive, nurturing environment. And unfortunately there's a lot of that, bigotry going around these days, isn't there, particularly in fandom circles.

[00:38:59] JORDAN: Yeah, and it seems to be the one thing that just kind of keeps coming around and it's always just those kind of select few that just happen to have very loud voices.

[00:39:07] JOSH: yeah, well, I am very pleased to, hear from you that, that, you know, making Wookieepedia a place where everyone is, is welcome and accepted for who they are, is the culture that, , you guys are trying to create. So, so I applaud you for that. And I'm, I'm, I'm very, I'm very happy to hear that.

[00:39:26] JORDAN: Yeah. And that's something I just, I can't stress enough is that if you want to join the site, you are whoever's listening. If you want to join the site, you are more than welcome to. We will be happy to help you along your journey.

[00:39:40] JOSH: I love that. What's something people don't realize about Wookieepedia or a misconception about how it works, that you, you wish everyone knew, like what's the biggest, misconception, if any, that you'd just like to set the record straight about.

[00:39:54] JORDAN: I think probably the biggest thing is just what I had just said that it's, anyone can join the site. It's not, you know, some elite group that's, uh, kind of controlling how the site runs. It's steal a quote from Rise of Skywalker. They're just people like this is it's entirely run by just, just people, just regular people like you and me, you know, that's not some, it's not some, you know, hired group.

[00:40:13] It's not, you know, a bunch of, it's not a select few that are deciding how everything happens. It's all done through community consensus.

[00:40:22] JOSH: What happens, uh, when there's a piece of new Star Wars, be it a novel or comic or, or even a movie that you just don't like, and therefore are loathe to sort of include or, revise, an entry. Um, I guess you sort of, don't have to worry about it because it's a, it's a community effort. So it's, it's someone else's problem.

[00:40:41] JORDAN: Exactly. And, and that's the beauty of is that if, if there's something that, you know, someone doesn't like, then that's okay, because someone else will like that someone else will find inspiration in that. And someone else will work on those articles, you know, it's you just work on what interests you.

[00:40:57] JOSH: I think a lot of people can really learn from, uh, that, that, uh, how do I put this, um, positive way of looking at, at canon and then Star Wars, it's a big universe and there's such a thing as, head canon and at the end of the day, just because there's something out there that, that is not to your particular, taste that, that, does no violence to the stuff that has always existed that will continue to exist that you do like.

[00:41:21] JORDAN: Yeah. And that's the one thing I'd like, if I can, if I can honestly personally bring anything to the Star Wars fandom through like our, so doing our social media platforms, it's just that it's that if you don't like something that's okay. Someone else likes it. That's fine too. You know, there's, there's no, there's no right or wrong answer when it comes to liking Star Wars.

[00:41:42] It's just some things aren't necessarily for everyone and that's okay because what you don't like, someone else can find inspiration and I think that's beautiful.

[00:41:50] JOSH: I think that's beautiful as well. And actually on that note, um, I think I said this at the top, but it bears repeating. You are the, person behind the official Wookieepedia Twitter account that's @ fficial.

[00:42:03] JORDAN: Yeah, that's right. So I do our, yeah. So I do our Twitter account @WookOfficial. , I do our YouTube channel as well. And at present, I'm doing our Instagram as well because the person who normally does that is just very hectic IRL. So I've been doing our Instagram for the last couple of months as well.

[00:42:20] JOSH: How do you have any time, man?

[00:42:22] JORDAN: I've been asking myself that for the last 11 years, and I don't have an answer for that yet. Aside from it's amazing how long you can function on five hours of sleep.

[00:42:33] I don't, advise doing that please. Everyone. If you're, if you're, if you're watching, if you're listening, stay hydrated and get regular sleep I cannot stress that enough. Don't follow. Just, just don't follow the example of Wookieepedia editors we're terrible for that.

[00:42:51] JOSH: on that note, like in the last, I don't know, year and some. I had really noticed an uptick in the engagement, that, the official Wookieepedia accounts had particularly on, Twitter, like daily highlighting of entries, the way you engage with other accounts. And it was always very lighthearted and very clever and very, you know, just fun.

[00:43:09] and that was you.

[00:43:10] JORDAN: That was, yeah, that was me. That was kind of, um, so I took over the account last year in, uh, in may, it was briefly hijacked by one of the administrators that was removed at the time. Um, but thankfully we managed to get that back. Um, but yeah, that was kind of one of the first things that I wanted to do was just kind of figure out, you know, what is, what's our voice?

[00:43:28] What does Wookieepedia stand for? And the logical answers to that was having fun. You know what, we're all here. We're all here to have a good time. So, you know what, let's bring some of that positivity into the community, kinda tackle some of that toxicity. Fanm just overwhelming with just happiness and kindness and joy

[00:43:45] JOSH: I can't tell you how happy I am to hear you say that. Because we really need that. I mean, not just in Star Wars, fandom in particular, but also the world at large. And I think, you know, having places, having fandoms, having fan spaces where,

[00:44:00] you can feel free to be yourself and you can enjoy yourself and encourage joy and fun and sharing passions.

[00:44:07] I think that that is so important and, vital. And, I want to thank you for fostering that,

[00:44:13] JORDAN: Honestly, I, I, I, wanna echo that. Thank you. And I wanna pass that. Thank you right back to the entire Star Wars community, because you know, everyone on Twitter has just been absolutely amazing. You know, it's just, it's been beautiful getting to see this community kind of, I don't wanna say so much kind of come out of its shell, but just kind of openly embrace their nerdy side a little bit more and kind of be a little more excited and positive about, you know, things that they're coming out, things that they're excited about.

[00:44:39] You know, it's, it's beautiful getting to see that on a daily basis, doing our, our social media, just getting to see these things that people are highlighting and just loving.

[00:44:48] JOSH: No, I love that too. so if you're not already following @WookOfficial, it is definitely worth a follow. It will, brighten your day. And I gotta tell you, Jordan, I couldn't help, but notice that the official Star Wars Twitter account seems to have stepped up their game in a way that is very reminiscent of what you have been doing with the Wookieepedia stuff.

[00:45:12] Do you think there's any connection there or is that just coincidence?

[00:45:16] JORDAN: Personal opinion. Yes. I, I do believe that that was inspired by, uh, by kind of what, by what I was doing with our account. Um, couple, I've talked with a couple other people at like kind of higher levels of fandom and we agree that like there's, there has to be some kind of a connection there between kind of us doing that.

[00:45:33] And then them starting to do that. Um, I've talked a few times with the person behind the team that does their account, and it sounds like they kind of got the go ahead to, you know, kind of reach out to fans a little more, kind of have a little more fun. And I, I have to believe that that that inspiration kind of came from us and you know what? I just love it. Mm-hmm

[00:45:53] JOSH: Yeah, well, I mean, that's just a testament to what you were doing and how successful and how great it was, that they would see that and be like, oh, you know, we should do that too. Like You know, like, I love it when @StarWars will reply to some rando Star Wars fan who makes a, you know, an innocuous comment that they don't expect anyone to ever see.

[00:46:11] And then,

[00:46:12] And

[00:46:12] then the official star wars. Twitter. Yeah. Yeah, no, it's just, so it's just, it's just such a lovely thing to see, and they never used to do anything like that. Never up until pretty recently.

[00:46:23] JORDAN: I think, honestly, my favorite part of star, my favorite, one of the favorite things I've seen is just how Star Wars Twitter has then kind of built on these interactions. And they've like kind of crafted like customized nicknames for like these various accounts. So like for us, I've been dubbed Bookman, um, the Star Wars account they've been dubbed Swagman and just kind of, you get this kind of community, you get this community built persona around these kind of accounts of like that's, that's Swagman over there, Swagman replied and it just, everyone just gets so excited by it.

[00:46:54] And it's just, it's just beautiful to kind of see that joy and. Build on that by then replying from Wookieepedia. So they get Star Wars and Wookieepedia.

[00:47:03] JOSH: Oh, that's wonderful. I love that. so you're Wookman?

[00:47:07] JORDAN: Yeah. I've I've, I've been dubbed wookman.

[00:47:11] JOSH: and then, official Star Wars account is Swagman.

[00:47:14] JORDAN: Yeah, they were dubbed. Swagman

[00:47:16] JOSH: I love it. Okay. So now, uh, so now that I know the lingo, maybe I won't sound like such an out of touch elder millennial, when I'm, I'm trying to talk online,

[00:47:27] JORDAN: just whatever you do. If you go on Twitter, never mention Star Wars plushy. Just, just don't

[00:47:34] JOSH: I won't and I won't ask

[00:47:36] JORDAN: you will find star, you will find Star Wars milk plushy Twitter, which was quite honestly one of the funniest things ever, but it's just pure chaos.

[00:47:44] JOSH: Okay. Listeners, I'm neither endorsing nor, discouraging you, you search for this at your own, at your own peril.

[00:47:52] JORDAN: Chaos Twitter is a fun place.

[00:47:56] JOSH: Uh, final question. The Last Jedi Yea or Nay?

[00:48:01] I'm just kidding.

[00:48:02] Oh,

[00:48:04] JORDAN: Honestly, honestly, one of the most fun things I've done on Twitter lately was, um, one of our other admins. Um, om, he, uh, sent me a message, uh, where he linked a, a little tweet kind of about The Last Jedi. So I quote, tweeted that with, um, you know, share. What's your kind of favorite moment? What was your kind of favorite part of it?

[00:48:22] You know? Well, let's keep it positive and it ended up getting like 280, some odd thousand views, you know, hundreds of comments that were just like overwhelmingly positive.

[00:48:31] JOSH: Oh, that's wonderful to hear. I

[00:48:33] love that movie. I can't help, but look, this is me. this is not, coming from anything truly empirical, but I get the sense that the quote unquote, backlash or the divisiveness or the hate that that film seemed to, create the, the schism. If you like in fandom, I do really think was a hyped up creation of a lot of the same elements that you, , were dealing with with those, bigoted moderators that, you referred to.

[00:49:00] I just feel like, I just feel like it's overblown

[00:49:04] JORDAN: Yeah. And it's always, like I said, it's always, you're gonna get those. You're gonna get those people that are gonna kind of, Overy kind of the things that they see as the negative that that's not the entire fandom. You know, the vast majority of this fan base just loves this IP and they just wanna have fun.

[00:49:20] You know, then you just kind of get these couple accounts that just, you know, over hype, the bad parts, you get more clicks.

[00:49:26] JOSH: Absolutely that's. Yeah, I mean, uh, we don't have a solution to that problem yet, but, um, hopefully, hopefully one day someone will, figure out how to get, kindness and the truth to be able to get its pants on, before lies and hatred. But, uh, haven't quite cracked that one yet.

[00:49:42] Um, well, Jordan or Supreme Emperor thanks so much for taking the time. I know that you've been on a lot of Star Wars podcasts, and I hope that, this wasn't an agonizing, repetition, for you

[00:49:53] JORDAN: honestly, no. Thanks. Thank thank you for having me. And, uh, thank you for having us on, you know, I've honestly getting to, uh, getting, just kind of pull the curtain back a bit. It's been one of the, one of the most fun parts of my quote unquote career on Wookieepedia is just getting to kind of connect with the fan base and explain how things work.

[00:50:10] It's it's been one of the most fun times of my life.

[00:50:13] JOSH: That's so wonderful to hear. So if, somebody wants to, contribute to Wookieepedia, they just go to fandom.com or starwars.fandom.com and create an account?

[00:50:24] JORDAN: Yeah, so if you go to either, you know, the fandom site or you go to us or any Wiki site, that's hosted by fandom, um, if you're on desktop at the bottom off of your screen, you'll see a little, create an account, an icon where you can create your own account. Um, if you make an account, um, you can use that on any Wiki site.

[00:50:40] So you could go edit something on Wookieepedia and then go edit something on memory alpha, and it'll be attributed to that same username. Um, and it's, it's quite literally, that's, it's as simple as that, you know, like I said, we've got a lot of tutorial pages. We have a very vast community that will be happy to help anyone who, uh, has questions.

[00:50:58] And if anyone is interested, please feel free to shoot us a DM on, uh, on Twitter or Instagram. And Y I'll be happy to talk to you.

[00:51:05] JOSH: I can attest that, you are very responsive and very lovely, , to talk to and very kind. so thank you again, Jordan, and, to our listeners, you've heard it from the Supreme Emperor. You can create an account at starwars.fandom.com or just fandom.com and you are welcome to become a part of the Wookieepedia community, and please follow @WookOfficial on Twitter. And, if you like what you heard, we are trashcompod across all social media and transcripts of all our episodes are available at trashcompod.com. And we will see you on the next one.