LOW KEY UNDERRATED: Will Disney Ever Remake the Original Trilogy? #SWPD2023

[00:00:00] JOSH: Welcome to Trash Compactor. I'm Josh. This is a special episode in honor of Star Wars Podcast Day 2023, February 7th, marks 24 years since the premiere of Jedi Talk, the very first Star Wars related podcast, um, before podcasts were even a thing, I'm pretty sure. So I guess it was, uh, you know, star Wars, uh, talk show.

[00:00:23] and, we're proud to take part in this third annual Star Wars podcast day with the rest of the Star Wars podcast community. Um, February 7th also happens to be my dad's birthday, so happy birthday dad. And,

[00:00:35] BRACEY: Happy birthday.

[00:00:38] JOSH: Today we're gonna be asking the question, will Disney ever remake the original Star Wars?

[00:00:45] And joining me in the trash compactor for this discussion is Bracey

[00:00:49] BRACEY: Hi. Happy to.

[00:00:51] JOSH: and John.

[00:00:51] JONNY: Hello.

[00:00:53] JOSH: So, yeah. Remaking Star Wars. It's kind of a provocative question, but, uh, before we get to that, I wanna talk a little about the Instagram post I saw that inspired this episode. It was a post made a couple of months ago from, um, star Wars fan account. And, what it was, was the poster for the original Star Wars.

[00:01:12] Um, star Wars, A New Hope, and the poster had written underneath it. Why is it low key underrated? It's so fun to watch. Darth Vader is Badass and I , I saw this and my feed I saw this in my feed and I was a bit dumbfounded, to be honest. I mean, not even in like a judgmental way. Like I'm not saying like, how could you say this about, but I was intrigued and I went through, the rest of the kids', posts and it became clear very quick.

[00:01:40] He was 14 years old, which means he was born in 2008. um, actually reached out to him to see if, he'd be interested in coming on the pod to, uh, talk about, what he meant and what his experience was and where he was coming from when he wrote that. But, um, he never, uh, yeah,

[00:01:56] Yeah, but he never

[00:01:57] JONNY: stranger

[00:01:57] JOSH: uh, which is, yeah. Uh, which is, uh, probably just as well, I have, it's a double-edged sword, responding to random strangers on the internet who are more than twice your age. So, I totally understand his desire to, uh,

[00:02:08] BRACEY: Smart, smart move kid. Well played. Well play.

[00:02:12] JONNY: Mm.

[00:02:12] JOSH: but yeah. So, um, star Wars, a New Hope.

[00:02:14] Why is it low key underrated. It's so fun to watch. you know, it just, it just struck me that Star Wars, the film, the movie Star Wars, the original movie, is no longer the central text of the larger phenomenon that is Star Wars, which is, you know, it's a little hard for me, to compute.

[00:02:31] Um, so, so just, you know, first off, I'm just curious what your reactions are to the idea that Star Wars is low-key, underrated, by a certain generation.

[00:02:43] BRACEY: Well, well, I'll say that like when, uh, The Phantom Menace came out, or I think it was the Clone Wars actually, after that, uh, uh, my, my brother was like, he actually preferred the newer ones because he was like the other, like the puppet. Like he, like, he couldn't get past the puppet in Empire. and, uh, uh, so that kind of already gave me this, like, this like, uh, oh, the world is not what I thought it was.

[00:03:05] And then, and then, uh, when captain America Civil Wars came out and there was a, a fight between all the Marvel characters and they actually had Spider-Man be like, Hey, did you guys ever see this really old movie? It's called Empire Strikes Back? Like, uh, when, uh, when that became part of popular Modern Media, uh, that perspective, I was like, all right, well, Yeah, we're old now.

[00:03:27] Like, I'm, I'm old now. I'm officially old now. If the modern, if the popular, pop movie is, is referencing something that I grew up with and I was like, that's a staple of just, uh, uh, sci-fi, um, even though it's fantasy, but, uh, a sci-fi and in my mind, and, and like now it's just being treated like, it's like how I, how I looked at Lawrence of Arabia.

[00:03:49] Like, you know, it's like, it's just like, it's old. It is old.

[00:03:52] JONNY: Yeah, I, um, I think it's just funny thinking that, someone calls the original Star Wars, like low key, underrated , but it's just like, uh, but I, I do find it interesting that like every generation has their, has their movies and. I feel like, uh, that's sort of like a sign of of this kid, like, going on his own journey of discovering movies.

[00:04:15] So I feel like to him and his peers, it's underrated. And he's like, oh, like, it's almost like, uh, he's not talking to us, he's talking to people, other eighth graders, whatever, and like, like, yo no guys. It's, it's like worth checking out. And, so I've, done this with other people, uh, in the past where like I find out that, you know, a lot of people didn't see The Godfather.

[00:04:39] And it's like, why? Because they think it's like gonna be like Goodfellas and The Sopranos and they're not into mobster stuff. And I'm like, no, no, no, no. It's not what you think it is. It's like, check it out. It's really good, you know, type of thing. So I feel like this is kinda like a version of that with a kid, you know?

[00:04:55] It's like, he's talking to a, a, a crowd that's like, not aware of something that's like fucking epic. You know? It's like if someone, if someone's tried talking to me about like Duke Ellington, I'll be like, oh, okay. Like, I'll go check it out. But, you know, like, I like, no, you would like, you, Jon would really like it.

[00:05:11] Like, okay, I'll, I'll, I'll go look at it. I think that's kind of like the, the way I see this comment, you know?

[00:05:16] BRACEY: I, I would even say though, like, because so much stuff has been built off of it, like I'm actually very impressed that people go back and they see it and they actually have the value because like, so much like has been, uh, kind of grafted off of that and like modernized that. Like, uh, if you can go back and like dust off the , the, the non letter box, whatever, whatever it is that you're, whatever version you're looking at it in, in like, uh, uh, uh, warts and all, you're able to see the value in that.

[00:05:46] I think that's actually fantastic.

[00:05:48] JONNY: Yeah. I think it's gonna keep happening too. Like with all the Jurassic World movies, like someone's gonna go back and watch Jurassic Park and be like, oh shit, someone's going to keep hearing about this. Back to the feature movie and watch it and be like, oh shit. Like, like it's, I think it's gonna happen a lot over the, as time goes on.

[00:06:03] JOSH: yeah, that's actually what I was gonna say. Uh, Bracey, you've made me realize that, uh, you know, I'm actually happy that someone who's 14 years old now went back and watched the original Star Wars and actually liked it. Right.

[00:06:17] BRACEY: Yeah.

[00:06:17] JONNY: that's the best thing to come out of that story, is that he went back and discovered it and loved it, which is cool.

[00:06:22] JOSH: Yeah, I mean, like I can even remember as a kid watching the original trilogy, like you're aware that there's a jump in, not quality, but there's a jump in what these movies can do from Star Wars to Empire to Return to the Jedi. It's like, you know, when you compare, you know, I had some friends for whom the original Star Wars of the three was their least favorite, because it had like the least, you know, stuff in it, for lack of a better, like, so even for our generation growing up with the three original Trilogy films on, you know, TV and v h s, like, there was still a little of that.

[00:07:01] Um, you know, and it is, it is interesting, like this kid in his avatar was, a character from the Clone Wars cartoon. So, his intro to Star Wars, and I wish he was here so he could, tell us for sure, but his intro to Star Wars was, you know, cartoon shows and, these new movies that, that came out when he was seven.

[00:07:22] JONNY: Yeah.

[00:07:23] JOSH: so it's interesting, like Star Wars as a movie is not. Central to Star Wars. The, the phenomenon, like the, the mythology of it. It's just sort of like the spark that lit, the fire. Um, but like you know, it's not integral to what Star Wars is now.

[00:07:41] It's like you can be a Star Wars fan and not even have seen that movie,

[00:07:45] BRACEY: which is a crazy idea to, to, to us. You know, like classically trained Star Wars fans,

[00:07:51] JOSH: Plus

[00:07:52] JONNY: trained. But like, especially being on Instagram, you could see how like, um, you know, cuz of the algorithms, they keep thinking like, oh you must like Star Wars. You're like all these Star Wars memes or whatever. And literally a hundred. of the, uh, the stuff that I get that's like, uh, fed to me for Star Wars, uh, references the prequels as like the linchpin for almost everything and the majority of it.

[00:08:20] Like, it made me realize that like when people talk about Star Wars, even the jokes and things that they're talking about, they're talking about all this ancillary content that's not the movies. Like they're talking about the Clone Wars cartoons. They're talking about the comics. They're talking about the TV shows and like, they're not talking about the movies and uh, and it's just like Star Wars is no longer movies, like Star Wars is now just a culture.

[00:08:51] Star Wars is now like a, just a thing. And when we were talking on the phone recently, uh, Josh, like, um, you know, like Star Wars is TV now and. keep saying how they're gonna make more Star Wars movies, but like, I don't know when the next Star Wars movie's gonna come out like it. And it's kind of like a weird thing where like for a generation of people, they're gonna think of like Star Wars.

[00:09:15] Oh yeah. All those cool TV shows. Oh, they're making a movie? How cool is that , you know, like, oh, that, that'll be like a special event when they make a movie. And it's like, well, yeah. It's like they were movies, you know, . Yeah. It's like, and this is so weird to think of it that way, you know, to everyone ex to now, I think for the majority of Star Wars fans out there, besides the old school, um, Obi-Wan, Kenobi's, Ewan McGregor, you know, to us it's like Alec Guinness.

[00:09:46] And then like you, McGregor

[00:09:47] has like fully taken the mantel where it's like you McGregor has done way more for the role than Al Guinness ever did. You know,

[00:09:53] JOSH: Yeah, I mean, frankly I agree with that. It's like, in my mind, I think Ewan McGregor is Obi-Wan Kenobi more than Alec Inis.

[00:10:00] Um, so yeah, so the question arises, and I'd seen this question floating around on social media. so with that said, with Star Wars, the movie Star Wars, , no longer at the center of the Star Wars phenomenon, this idea that Disney or someone though it will be Disney, do you think they will ever remake the original trilogy?

[00:10:25] JONNY: Um, I know Bracey and I have different opinions on this, but I,

[00:10:30] JOSH: Well there are a couple of separate questions here. Will they, should they, how would they do it? Right,

[00:10:36] BRACEY: so,

[00:10:37] let's start with the, would they.

[00:10:39] JONNY: what they, my opinion, at least in George Lucas's lifetime, they seem to be holding those original films as kind of sacred. That's why they won't even release the theatrical versions. Um, culturally speaking. They still resonate. Like when they, when people talk about like them being registered with like congress for like cultural significance and stuff like that, like that can't be repeated.

[00:11:05] Uh, for what they did. It's almost like, um, uh, Michelangelo's David and stuff like that. Like they are what they are. Um, but, but with the way technology is going and what they've already done with the Mandalorian and Young Luke Skywalker and making a solo movie and all this shit, like, I think they will have more stories with those characters in the future.

[00:11:31] And they, but I don't necessarily think they'll just go back and redo it. I think they might have more Luke Skywalker stuff and everything like that. I also think they're gonna be a little bit more, um, with all the characters that they have now that they're bringing to form from like the cartoons and the comics and all that stuff.

[00:11:51] Like, I feel like. , they now have a library of people, uh, for more stories to use that they don't need to use the original characters anymore. So I feel like in a weird way, like by having the old movies still intact and not green made, that creates, uh, a straight line to what their feature is going to be.

[00:12:17] And if they go back and reboot it, then it's like, at that point they'll just reboot everything ad nauseum. And I don't think that's necessarily what they're gonna do. Like, I don't like that means they're gonna reboot the prequels. That means they're gonna reboot the sequels. That means they're gonna reboot the Mandalorian.

[00:12:33] And this is

[00:12:33] like,

[00:12:34] JOSH: but not, no, but not necessarily. Uh,

[00:12:36] JONNY: well give it like another a hundred years. Like they might, like, you see what I'm trying to say? So I, I feel like, or maybe like a 20, but you know, what I'm trying to say is like the same logic could apply to literally everything that they're making now.

[00:12:47] So that's why I don't necessarily think. They're going to do it because it would just be like a repeating thing, you know? Whereas instead of just, it just keep going, I think they're gonna get to like episode 27. You know, like, I think they're gonna keep going with the episodes and keep making more things and then make in between stories with like, oh, we'll bring Luke Skywalker back digitally for this thing and whatever.

[00:13:09] But like, I don't think they're gonna go back and redo the old shit cuz it's there.

[00:13:13] JOSH: What do you think?

[00:13:14] BRACEY: Well, at some point it, uh, one, one thing is at some point it, like the original ones become public domain, don't they? Like at some

[00:13:22] JONNY: Mm-hmm.

[00:13:22] JOSH: Well, yeah, well, but that's not gonna happen for, until like 2077 or

[00:13:29] BRACEY: yeah. It's not, it's not, it's not on the, it's not on the near term horizon, but like, They have been dealing with that reality as like a whole, as a company dealing with Mickey and dealing with a lot of their properties. And, uh, they spent a lot of money for that property. And I feel like they've created a lot of new IP around the lore that the Star Wars trilogy establishes.

[00:13:52] And it just like, I, I, I don't think that, um, the fact that they would have to continue to, to create new done versions of old, uh, of older properties is actually a, I I don't, I don't see that as a, a flaw. I see that as a feature. Like, you know, like I see that as, uh, uh, in a, in, in, in a highly competitive content environment.

[00:14:19] JONNY: I'm not saying it's a flaw, I'm just saying it's something that they probably wouldn't do is remick the old ones. I'm not saying it's like morally bad or something like that.

[00:14:27] BRACEY: Oh, yeah. No, no. I, I, I, I hear that. I, I I don't see it as morally bad either. I'm just saying, I, I, I don't think you were trying to say that. I just think that like, I, I would see that as a reason, uh, uh, for them to make these movies just because like, now it's all, it, it's, it's all about attention and, uh, uh, as you, as other people, smaller creators get to the capability, continue within the next five years, continue to get to a capability level that they could make a feature film that looks as good as something that Disney can do, then like, like, like they're gonna leverage whatever they got.

[00:15:06] They're gonna leverage whatever they got to make, whatever content they can to pull people into their platform to spend money or else that system doesn't work anymore. Like, I don't see it lasting much more than five, five to 10 years before they make, uh, make a film. And I wouldn't be surprised if they announce it in the next three years.

[00:15:23] JOSH: Wait, I'm sorry. Just so I understand, you think they are going to remake , the original trilogy within the next five to 10 years? Is that what you just said?

[00:15:32] BRACEY: Yeah, I think they're gonna remake it within the next five to 10 years, and I think they're, and I would not be surprised if they announced that they're gonna do that within the next three years.

[00:15:40] JONNY: I don't think they're gonna do that,

[00:15:41] but um, yeah, that's a very bold tradition cause because they still have a lot of other things in the pipeline before they even get to that. Culturally speaking, there's a lot of things attached to the original trilogy.

[00:15:51] It's not just, cinema significance, it's also John Williams. It's also the star making movie for Harrison Ford. Um, . It's a lot of these things. And so I feel like, I feel like giving the most, uh, the most leniency for them to redo it, that I think that they will probably do is to keep doing special auditions of those movies where they make things look better digitally.

[00:16:27] But I don't think they would wanna replace the Harrison Ford. I don't think they would wanna replace, uh, James Earl Jones or, uh, John Williams's music and all that stuff. And so I feel like if they were to remake it in the future, those are big, big shoes to fill. It's like, it's like the same reason why people don't remake Wizard or Vaz because it's like you have to, you have to all of a sudden have a new Judy Garland singing somewhere over the Rainbow.

[00:16:53] And it's like, that's

[00:16:54] JOSH: they have remade the Wizard of Oz a few times. Like that

[00:16:57] JONNY: well, on The Wiz, and, but like, it's, but people see that as like something different from, they didn't, people didn't see that as like, this is, uh, the replacement of the Wizard of Oz. Like people just saw it as like another thing,

[00:17:11] JOSH: right. Well, well, well, I think in this case, to what you're saying, Jon, like, I don't think you can, I mean, even going along with, the scenario that, Bracey just threw out there where, you know, they remake them in some fashion in the next five to 10 years. Like, I don't think there's any scenario where they're talking about like deleting or erasing the original versions of the films.

[00:17:32] I use original versions loosely you know, in the form that

[00:17:34] they exist

[00:17:35] JONNY: yeah, yeah. Yeah.

[00:17:36] JOSH: uh, the one interesting thing is the pains they have gone to in the new stuff, like they have Harrison Ford in The Force Awakens, they have recreated Mark Hamill's likeness for the character to appear in The Mandalorian.

[00:17:51] So like they would have to. Deal with the fact that in this new media that they are like trying, to create within this, you know, consistent, interconnected universe that they've created. Like they've now made it so, like Luke Skywalker looks like Mark Hamill circa 1980, whatever, right?

[00:18:09] JONNY: Uh, going, going to the Wizard of Oz thing, I think something that the Wizard of Oz and, um, here's, here's a sound clip. I think something that the Wizard of Oz and the DC Universe have in common is that they're based off of, uh, they're based off of written material that weren't movies beforehand.

[00:18:30] So like, them going to the source is going back to something else. Star Wars, going back to the source is going back to their own movie timeline. So I feel like that inherently makes it different because it makes it a little bit more special compared to like, oh, well, Batman's a comic book, so we can just keep, like, we'll just keep making Batman, like James Bond, whatever.

[00:18:49] But. . I feel like with Star Wars it's harder to do that, you know?

[00:18:55] JOSH: Well, there is this idea that like, you know, film is unique because it renders reality so convincingly that like what you see in a movie, that's the way it quote unquote really happened,

[00:19:08] right? That I think when.

[00:19:10] The text originates in another form. That's not a movie like you were saying, like a novel or like a comic book or like a stage production or whatever, because of the nature of those media. there is no, that's the way it happened,

[00:19:26] JONNY: even with Lord of the Rings, cuz not everyone pictured Vigo Mortenson as Aragorn before they saw the movie. But then everyone pictures, Mark Hamill as Luke Skywalker.

[00:19:36] JOSH: I think this is a special case

[00:19:39] yeah, but, so there's an interesting question there. You know, how to deal with the fact that the original source material was created in that medium, that is quote unquote really how it happened, right? like, and the fact that like the sequels and, You know, all the stuff, the new stuff that they're putting out that is said in that, period of time in the fictional universe.

[00:20:02] Like they are, they are using AI and CG to recreate Mark Hamill at a certain age. Like, like to be Luke Skywalker. Like, I think, um, I think after the Obi-Wan show, was when I was reading a lot of these, ideas of like, you know, in, in 10 years or so, like these kids are gonna be the right age.

[00:20:17] So, uh, they should just remake Star Wars and have Ewan McGregor he'll be the right age,

[00:20:21] uh, to play. Yeah. So, so it's like, why not? I think that's where a lot of this started. But you still encounter that problem though, where, Luke

[00:20:29] BRACEY: But it's

[00:20:30] not a problem.

[00:20:31] JONNY: well, I, I think there's a way to, uh, between our deferring opinions, I think there's a way for us to have our cake and to eat it too, because there's actually a precedent for this, which is JJ Abrams Starr, because they recognize in those movies that the Kirk shit with, uh, William Shatner, the Kirk shit , the William Shatner television series, and those original movies happened, and then because of a time divergence or.

[00:21:01] uh, they were able to soft reboot it with a younger cast and then make their own Star Trek movies. But Leonard Nemoy was like the connecting thing. So I feel like, uh, and that's another thing that was made with TV and movies in our heads. We had Leonard Nemoy, William Shatner, George Taai, uh, Tekay Toay.

[00:21:22] And um, and I feel like Star Wars, if they were to make new movies with these characters besides digitally just recreating Harrison Ford long after he's dead is maybe they would just do something like that. Or it's like an alternative take as to like, well, what if this happened instead of that happening?

[00:21:41] And like, have it just be kind of like the, uh, what do they call it, like the Kelvin Universe or some shit.

[00:21:47] But like, I wouldn't be surprised if they do some sort of like ancillary thing like that. Maybe start it off as like a TV show and then make it into a movie or something.

[00:21:55] JOSH: Yeah, I mean, I'm kind of with, I'm kind of with Bracey. I don't think it matters that they don't look exactly the same. And I also think like, you know, that specific example of the JJ Abrams Star Trek, like the only reason that they had Leonard Nemoy there, I think was to placate you know, a certain kind of Star Trek fan.

[00:22:17] JONNY: Yeah. And there's, there's a certain type of Star Wars fan too that would, if they found out that they're remaking the original trilogy, they would light the world on fire . And so like, it's just like we've already seen them react, like we've already seen Rise of Skywalker as a reaction movie, I feel like, to an extent.

[00:22:34] So I feel like, and we've already seen them shut down movies after Solo underperformed, so you know that they do take fan reactions seriously, right or wrong, you know, uh,

[00:22:48] not saying they should,

[00:22:49] JOSH: saying,

[00:22:49] JONNY: I'm saying,

[00:22:50] I'm saying Disney Lucas' film, they. React to fan reactions. So when fans are wigging out, like Disney money-wise, like, you know, if we wanna go the cynical route, they wanna make money above all things.

[00:23:04] I don't

[00:23:05] think there would.

[00:23:05] JOSH: I mean, that's what

[00:23:06] JONNY: just saying, you know, like, sure. But I'm just saying like, there would be a huge outrage, um, about them recreating the original trilogy that goes beyond racism and sexism and all that stuff. I'm talking like, there's a lot of people out there who would be like, fuck no about

[00:23:23] that.

[00:23:24] And so, if they, if they were to do it, I feel like it'll be like very, very far in the future if they were even consider it.

[00:23:30] JOSH: well, I mean, I think there's an equation, right? Like how many of those fans are the ones who y you're marketing to primarily versus how many, it's like what's the largest group of fans that would vibe with something like that? Right.

[00:23:44] JONNY: Well, there's also the filmmaker culture too, like how many directors and actors would sign onto that?

[00:23:50] Like,

[00:23:50] BRACEY: More than enough. I,

[00:23:51] JONNY: um, there, I mean like,

[00:23:53] BRACEY: at, i, I do not see that ever being a thing that like, like, oh, they're remaking Star Wars. Oh no. no, I'm, I'm too good for that. Like, like, like who's

[00:24:02] JONNY: it, it might

[00:24:03] BRACEY: Jump on with

[00:24:04] JONNY: be like a too good thing as much as like a too scared thing, because that's like big fucking shoes to fill. It's not like you're remaking Stand By Me. You know, , it's like you're, you're remaking like a cultural phenomenon and it's like, it's like, oh, we're remaking the Beatles.

[00:24:20] It's like, whoa, who's gonna be the new Beatles? You know? It's like those, those are huge shoes to fill.

[00:24:25] JOSH: Well, but they've kind of already done it though. Like there are three actors that they, well, I mean four actors, like they have, a Luke, they have a Leia, they have an Obi-Wan, they have a Han Solo. so assuming the young actors who played, Luke and Lea, I know we didn't really see, Luke that much in the Obi-Wan Kenobi show, but like presuming in 10 years he's still an actor and he, he's still up for it.

[00:24:45] Like they've kind of already done that. Like they've like softened the ground

[00:24:49] JONNY: But they weren't trying to remake something that they were like, no one saw 10 year old Leia or Luke. No one saw, uh, the origin. And by the way, like one of the reasons why solo underperformed is because the actor who played Alden A a Erick as how you say his last name, but,

[00:25:06] um,

[00:25:07] JOSH: re

[00:25:08] JONNY: yeah, something like that.

[00:25:09] Yeah. he was good. He was, I thought he, I thought he did a fantastic job. Uh, he was really close to the same age as, uh, Hans Solo in the New Hope. So people were like, ah, like it was harder for them to swallow that pill. So it, I, it didn't, like there was still a reaction to that movie. It kind of underperformed.

[00:25:30] We could also say that it came out six months after Blast Jedi and all that stuff, whereas like a 10 year old Luke and Leia is an easier pill to swallow because it's like, oh yeah. Like they can't replicate those guys. They can't because they're 10 years old, so they, there's no pressure on them.

[00:25:44] JOSH: I suppose,

[00:25:45] JONNY: there's no pressure in Jake Lloyd to be Darth Vader when he is 10 years old, you know?

[00:25:50] JOSH: well, I mean,

[00:25:50] BRACEY: But there, but there

[00:25:51] JOSH: know that,

[00:25:52] JONNY: Well, that was, that was, that was a reaction to the movie. But like, but like, but as like a, as an actor, like no one expected a 10 year old boy to be six foot five Darth Vader in a suit. James Earl Jones. They were just like, that was a reaction to the movie and whatever, but like, know what I'm trying to say?

[00:26:09] There was pressure on Ewan McGregor, maybe to get closer to Alec Guinness more than there were like a, a child to

[00:26:16] BRACEY: Can I, can I throw a quick scenario out, like, uh, can we say like, just imagine five years, a five year run and, uh, we have more successful Mandalorian and whatever the other shows are a socas out like, uh, uh, they've brought in a whole new generation of people and they look cuz they've got the straight up data of the streams.

[00:26:34] Most people aren't looking at the original trilogy and they know that they can remake the original trilogy for X amount of money and get a, a, a significant return on their investment for remaking it. And, and they would reinvigorate a whole new generation. and make them feel like they're part of the conversation in a way that they, this new generation doesn't like.

[00:27:01] I feel like if they get to the numbers, the wood for me is completely a numbers game. Be. If they can calculate it and they see that, uh, that opportunity exists, then I don't see any reason that they wouldn't do it apart from it could damage something. But even in there, I feel like it, I feel like that will fall out the farther out on that 10 year

[00:27:25] JONNY: well,

[00:27:25] BRACEY: uh, that we go.

[00:27:26] JONNY: I feel like in that situation what they would do was they would just make new adventures with those original characters and then making those original characters, uh, making those original movies stories with those original characters would then, uh, create the curiosity for those kids to go back and watch the original ones.

[00:27:44] So it's cheaper. in a way to like, they, they will make more money off the original trilogy by just having them rewatch it and stream it. And then they would make, uh, stupid money with the new movies of like new, with new adventures. Because with the new adventures that guarantees everyone's gonna watch it compared to just like, uh, uh, kids who, you know what I'm trying to say?

[00:28:09] Like, I think, I think, uh, every fan across the board would be up for a new adventure with Han Lu and Leia that had nothing to do with the original trilogy compared. And then if they're curious, they would just go back and watch the original trilogy, thus at upping the revenue and streams for the original movies,

[00:28:25] if that

[00:28:26] BRACEY: do that

[00:28:26] JOSH: mean,

[00:28:26] BRACEY: anyone's.

[00:28:27] JONNY: But they're not concentrated on the old characters. That's why they don't, that's probably why the kids aren't going back and watching them. They would probably make more stuff with the original characters making them go back.

[00:28:35] JOSH: no, I think it depends, like, I'm, I'm with Bracey they would, if the numbers say that it makes sense for them to, the question in my mind is, is like, will the numbers ever make sense for them to, and I'm actually encouraged, , going back to the post that the 14 year old made that he, he went and he engaged with this movie that was made.

[00:28:59] 30 years before he was born and he was like, what? Like, hey, like, like this was really fun. Like this movie is underrated. I guess he has a perception that Star Wars fans of his cohort don't really watch the original trilogy, or at least the original Star Wars.

[00:29:15] I don't know about, about, uh, the original trilogy. So, so it does, make me question how far out that equation is going to tip over into like, yeah, like we should, should remake the original trilogy as long as there are young fans who go and seek out the original movie and still get a satisfying experience from it.

[00:29:37] Now that said, I think We all have the experience of, , growing up as kids and maybe, having a harder time with, say, a movie or a TV show that was in black and white. Right? Or like something, less accessible because of the presentation and the style of, filmmaking.

[00:29:56] Like to make a comparison, to Dr. Who, which I, I have a bad habit of doing far too often on this ostensibly Star Wars podcast.

[00:30:04] uh, uh, but like, most of classic Dr. Who was, made, you know, in a method of making TV That had far more to do with a theatrical stage, performance tradition with like a camera sort of pointed at it than, you know, cinematic language.

[00:30:24] And, for a lot of people who weren't around, , for when that style of TV was in vogue, it can be very hard to get into the show because it quote unquote, like, looks fake or looks cheap when they aren't on the, the wavelength of like, this isn't supposed to look

[00:30:44] real.

[00:30:45] what I'm trying to get at is that like, as long as those films are. Still accessible, you know, someone who didn't grow up in that time or didn't, I mean, grow up in the 20th century frankly. as long as kids of the 21st century are able to watch it, and most of them are able to sit through it and appreciate it for what it is, I don't know that they will go the route of completely remaking those stories.

[00:31:12] Now, if they were to, I could see them like, I mean, they've even tried this like, um, I forget what it's called, but there was a YouTube series, an animated YouTube series, uh, Galaxy of Heroes, I think it was called, where they, they animated key moments from the George Lucas six, like the original trilogy and the prequel trilogy.

[00:31:30] JONNY: I think in the sequels too. They did it.

[00:31:32] JOSH: Yeah, I think you're right that we're specifically aimed at younger children who, maybe wouldn't sit through, you know, a two hour movie that was made 30 years ago. so I could very easily see them, like maybe remaking all of the Skywalker movies as like animated films or something, or, I could also see them, you know, making a, TV limited series of the events of the original trilogy from another point of view.

[00:31:57] JONNY: Mm. Yeah, I, so that's, that's, that's kind of unline what I was saying before. Like, uh, it would just be a different thing if they would go back to the original, uh, characters.

[00:32:06] JOSH: Because like I do think there is this kind of extra challenge where you are on the one hand saying like, with, the sequels and the Mandalorian. Like Han Solo always looked like Harrison Ford and Luke Skywalker has always, you know, looked like Mark Hamill, where, you know, it has that extra challenge of the originating, source material is from this medium where the actors are inseparable from the characters, right? I mean, even though they have, they have recast Han Solo and Obi-Wan, before one successfully and one,

[00:32:35] JONNY: Yeah. But I, I think, uh, the reason why I'm kind of going with the Luke and Lehane with, with the kids, the reason why the Obi-Wan recasting was successful is because, uh, it did take place 30 years prior. So you wouldn't, he wouldn't look like an old man. He would look like a young man. And I feel like with the reason why Solo, yet again, as great as I thought he was in that movie, I mean, that I feel like is an underrated movie,

[00:32:59] But like, uh, he, he was only like five years younger than his character in A New Hope. So that's why people were like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. That's like, uh, that's why people were more hesitant to it because he was supposed to be much closer in age, uh, to what Harrison Ford was. And so like, it would've been different if it were like showing like a 12 year old Han Solo or something like that.

[00:33:24] Um,

[00:33:25] JOSH: You know, we're also forgetting, uh, Lando, who I think, you know, most people would agree, like they really wanted to see,

[00:33:31] more of, Donald Glover in that

[00:33:33] JONNY: you know, to take that off on a tangent. Right Now, I, I wonder, I mean, a Billy D. Williams is even older than Harrison Ford. Uh, so to play a younger Lando, there's more of an age gap. But on top of that, like, I feel like when Billy D. Williams was cast as Lando, he was like, fucking Billy D.

[00:33:54] Williams. And like, like, he had, like, people knew who he was. Like nobody knew who Harrison Ford was. He was, he was Han Solo and then he became Indiana Jones, you know, so I feel like it was a bit easier. It's like when, um, it's like, I don't know, like if they were to do like a young, like Mee window, it's like Samuel Jackson was like very popular before he became me.

[00:34:18] Windu . So like, hi. His, the image of Mee Window is more associated with Samuel Jackson and maybe the image of Lando is more associated with, uh, Billy Dee Williams. Oh no. If it's vice versa or whatever, but you know what I'm trying to say, like, the actor I think might have out shown the role as compared to the role outshining the actor.

[00:34:39] And so

[00:34:40] BRACEY: I feel like those,

[00:34:41] JONNY: more leeway with that.

[00:34:43] BRACEY: I feel like the argument though with like, the age and do they, do they match the person or they, they don't match because of the, like, it only matters when we're talking about the old guard. Like it only matters when you're talking about the people who, uh, their, their, uh, their image of the Star Wars universe is grafted to the original cast and how that was presented.

[00:35:05] However, I don't think Disney sees the old guard as the future of the, the Star Wars. Ip. Like, I don't see them thinking like, oh, we have to continue to appease them as we move forward and we're making our plans because ultimately that's not where their growth opportunity e even is. And, and that's where I see their, the, their, the, the real reason why they would refresh the original Star Wars movies, whether that's as a movie or what, that's a movie directly to, uh, uh, uh, to the Disney Plus platform is because they care more than anything to McDonald's.

[00:35:47] If I a Star Wars fan, they wanna get them in early and there's no accessibility to those movies. Some of us will find it, some kids, some cool kids will like discover it. But I do not think it is at the, the level that would be like indoctrinating essentially people into the

[00:36:05] JONNY: I, I think it, I think it's like a catch 22 thing where, because I think it had something to do with what Josh was saying earlier, where it's like, if you wanna get people on board with those stories and those characters, that's going to take a certain amount of. effort and interest on the viewer.

[00:36:23] So I don't think anyone who's actually curious about those characters, who wants to see those stories. Like, well, maybe there's some of them, but like, I don't know, I don't, I don't think necessarily they would go back and then not watch them because they're old. I think more likely maybe with what you're talking about, these characters might not even, they might not even be in people's heads with, like certain people when they think of Star Wars, they probably think of Mando and Grogu and Ahsoka and whatever, and so like it, it's kind of like irrelevant.

[00:36:58] So if they never go back and watch uh, stories with Luke Skywalker or the original movies with Luke and Han and all of them, they don't care cuz they're still, they can make new Star Wars movies with Greg and Jeff and they will love Greg and Jeff. So like, it doesn't matter. They're still gonna be making a, a shit ton of money on the new movies with new characters if, even if people never even heard of Han Solo.

[00:37:23] And then if the people that are like, oh, I actually heard about this Darth Vader, Han Solo, Luke Skywalker thing. If they already have that interest and they want to seek it out, they'll just go back and watch it.

[00:37:34] That's the way I kind of see it.

[00:37:36] JOSH: you know, I think you're right on the money Bracey in terms of the, you know, the McDonald's vacation or whatever of, Star Wars as like a lifestyle that, like you want to, you want to get them young. And I think, you know, there are already s several, starting points already beyond the original trilogy.

[00:37:54] Like there were, I mean the prequels certainly were one. Um, the Clone Wars Rebels sort of, Feloni-verse of it all.

[00:38:03] Um, uh, the sequels. You know, in the quote unquote phily versus even more, accessible you know, with Mando and, the Ahsoka show, I think that's gonna make a lot of people who maybe were either too old or too young to, watch Clone Wars.

[00:38:21] I think the Ahsoka show will make a lot of people go back and check out, like even Clone Wars, which like, you know, we're forgetting is also a, pretty old show at this point.

[00:38:31] JONNY: Yeah. It's almost like 20 years old at this point.

[00:38:35] JOSH: No, it's like, it's like to like

[00:38:39] JONNY: Oh, I'm thinking of the,

[00:38:40] uh.

[00:38:41] the, the 2D cartoon that came out like in 2005 or 2004. Yeah.

[00:38:45] JOSH: Yeah. so like, I think there are already a lot of starting points, and I think you're right, Bracey, like they are the old guard, as it were. Um, of which I guess we are

[00:38:57] BRACEY: We're the old guard buddies. We're the old guards.

[00:39:00] JOSH: well, well, like, well, frankly, as far as Disney is concerned, I think, you know, you said Bracey, like they, , they definitely feel a need to kind of appease a certain kind of fan.

[00:39:12] I think they're frankly just waiting for us to die , uh, uh, so that, you know, they don't have to worry about, stepping on certain, certain landmines, uh, culturally speaking.

[00:39:23] JONNY: and maybe that might, and give them more of an incentive to get away from the Skywalkers for fuck's sake.

[00:39:29] After we all die. and then more

[00:39:32] BRACEY: that already. I think they're actively making that effort to

[00:39:35] spread out the universe and, and, and fill out into those other characters.

[00:39:39] JONNY: which kind of gives them more ammunition to just make new stuff and never go, don't go back to the old shit, you know?

[00:39:45] JOSH: Yeah, I mean, I think through this conversation, I'm, I'm kind of talking myself to the, position that Star War, that, that, uh, Disney would definitely remake it if the numbers were there. But I don't think they're going to, I think is where I'm coming down on this. And if they do, I think it'll, be in a form where it's not just like a straight up one-to-one, here's a movie that's episode four, here's a movie that's episode five, here's a movie that's episode six.

[00:40:13] I think it would like, be something in the vein of like a limited series where it's got like a spin on it or like an animated thing. It's not like a one-to-one. Correlation. I think that's where I'm landing on it

[00:40:23] BRACEY: uh, uh, here's how I would do it. I would, I would, I would totally, look at like, if we were gonna make Star Wars First Principles today and like, and give it the like Andor plus treatment. Like we really want to lean into this. , um, and make it like the staple of like what we think Star Wars could be, um, and represent and show this world, uh, that's expansive, this, this galaxy, and really set the stage.

[00:40:56] Like I, I would, yeah, I, I would let, I would play out the TV shows spread. Get, get more properties out there, people who are invested in other areas of the, of the Star Wars universe. Uh, uh, in five years, five to seven years, I would take the new technology that allows me to use all the old characters if I want to, um, and just remake them, but like really, really well done.

[00:41:24] And then those become like the, uh, the sy it be, uh, they make the Star Wars staple pack, uh, uh, and you can go back and see the originals if you want to, but I feel like that would reinvigorate a lot more attention from the younger crowd to understand what like the core mythology was. But then, uh, what would really be happening is that's actually just like a, it's a, it's a small portion of what's going on in the world, but they al like, they allow accessibility to these other stories that are just like gonna be falling off the radar.

[00:41:56] The more and more we, uh, we move forward.

[00:41:58] JOSH: So you're talking about remaking the movies that way, like with like the Andor the, Andor verve. or whatever you wanna call it, like the Andor approach.

[00:42:08] BRACEY: Like, yeah, the, Andor approach really, really tying it into other elements that just weren't in the original, uh, adding inclusivity in ways that like other people do not feel a part of the story in this universe and they don't feel like it's actually a, a wider galaxy.

[00:42:24] JOSH: Well, like, you know, one of the things that I heard somebody say on another podcast they were talking about, Andor, and they were like, this is clearly the most like well realized, well-acted, well-written, well-made show like Star Wars thing I have ever seen.

[00:42:42] Except it's not for kids, and that makes me a little bit sad, right? that really, I think articulated, s the only, critique that I could level at Andor in any way would be that. And like how integral is, that to Star Wars, that it, be accessible to kids.

[00:43:00] And you know, if you do go back to first principles, like, that was George Lucas's intention, right? To create like a mythological framework to impart lessons about life and society and how to live and interact with society for kids, right? So, so, so when you say, so when you say like, remake it and give it the Andor treatment, I don't know that would work necessarily, because if the intention is to, get 'em young, I think you would have to make, I think it's more likely we get something closer to the like humor of like The Last Jedi, for example, where it's like, it's like more kid friendly, like either The Last Jedi or like The Phantom Menace, frankly.

[00:43:43] JONNY: well, I, I, it's funny you mentioned all this because I remember, watching Andor, and thinking about how we have always said before, how like every show is kind of like a different facet of what Star Wars is like. Uh, the, the serial of the spaghetti Western, the fantasy, the whatever. Watching and or I had that same thought.

[00:44:04] I was like, this isn't for kids. And I did think that like the mantra of Star Wars was always like, it's for kids . So like, so it was something that made me think like, um, it, it was a bit ironic because I think, I remember when they were making Solo, when they fired the original directors. Um, I think a big problem that we all kind of assumed, but I think given quotes with, from like Lawrence Kasden and stuff like that was that they were saying like, Han Solo is not funny.

[00:44:35] Like, don't try to make, like, it, it almost like, I think we all kind of inferred that maybe they were trying to make it too much of a comedy or whatever. I don't know, I could be totally wrong, but like, it was like a vibe thing and it wasn't working. And I feel like, and or is a same extreme vibe change.

[00:44:54] That works because it's, it's done really well, you know, and they take it very seriously. So I feel like, and or kind of opens up the door of like, thematically speaking, who is Star Wars four? What are the audiences like, are they gonna make like a Star Wars slapstick comedy? Are they gonna make like a Star Wars horror movie?

[00:45:14] Are they gonna make like a, like a Star Wars romance, romantic comedy? Like, is this all these things where it's just like, and or kind of opens up those doors of possibilities that like, should Star Wars go down those roots or not? Because who is the audience and why are they making these movies?

[00:45:29] BRACEY: I, I feel like we've, we've, we've landed. The should portion of our conversation should

[00:45:35] JONNY: yes. Now, now, now we're in sync, question number two over an now we're into the podcast. Should they do this? Because even, like, should they have even made Andor the way that they made it,

[00:45:46] I, I think that, well, in my opinion, as a, as a consumer, and that's what I wanna see as a 40 year old. Fuck yeah. But like, at the same time, it's like, these things are gonna go like way over kids' heads

[00:45:56] and

[00:45:56] they're not gonna under, but it's like, I'm totally fine with it, but I'm just saying like, it's like a, it's like a philosophical sort of

[00:46:03] thing of like, how far down are you gonna have like a West Wing, Star Wars, like how far down

[00:46:07] the line are you gonna go?

[00:46:08] You

[00:46:08] JOSH: so you can, you can have the, Andor flavor of Star Wars as long as you have all the other ones, right? Like, like, again, it's like, it's like, you know, making, making customers for life, right? So, so you need something For every age group, every demographic. Um, so yeah, so the should, right?

[00:46:26] I think I would not like to see the original trilogy remade. I would be very, intrigued. you know, again, like to talk about, movies and remix in general. the only reason to remake a movie is if you're, you're introducing something new. It's like you have a new thing to say about the material or a new spin on it.

[00:46:45] Um, going to what, Bracey was saying, like, I'd be very interested and intrigued to see a remake of say, , you know, starting with A New Hope where, , the main character was Leia and we were following her. And The Other, your your twin brother was Luke, right? I would also be very interested in.

[00:47:07] friend of the podcast, Jeff Coney wrote this on, his social media. , and my head was going somewhere similar. watching the Obi-Wan Kenobi series made me realize that that was sort of an alternate universe. episode four of the main saga, like that, series followed up Revenge of the Sith more than the original Star Wars as a follow up, to Revenge of the Sith, like you wanna see when Obi-Wan finds out that Anakin is Vader and you want to see them confront each other again. And like, what we get of that in Star Wars, like, if you watch them in chronological order, it's like, it's like the emphasis is not where you feel like it should be.

[00:47:49] So, so Jeff was, um, you know, he was saying like, you should remake it and have it be through the eyes of Obi-Wan Kenobi. Right? uh, you know, like, I think there are ways to, to do the source material, with a different spin, uh, a different emphasis. And I would be intrigued, to see that,

[00:48:08] BRACEY: so, uh, when I was saying getting, getting them young, like the way I'm seeing this is in 10 years, like you could look at, uh, uh, the new journey that they started for people with Mandalorian.

[00:48:19] I think they started, uh, uh, bringing people in at, um, at the end of 2019, it's like that was the beginning of the Mandalorian, the, the, to the TV series version of, of Star Wars. And I feel like at the end of 10 years you're gonna have this generation of people who have gotten to the point that they could be leaned into something like, and or more.

[00:48:43] And I feel like that's actually why I like when I'm thinking of the original stories being redone, it is specifically to pull in the kids who started right now and have been going o through the series and the TV shows and haven't really been interested in the movies so much as they are interested in all the other Star Wars universe properties that are coming out.

[00:49:07] And that that would be the perfect way to. Bring them in young, but young. I'm talking 20, like I'm talking like the beginning of the funnel of somebody who's gonna be spending their money on Disney for the next 30 to 40 to 50 years. And that being the launching point of, it's like more of a gift for this, this group that's kind of going through the , the factory floor right now.

[00:49:36] So that's kind of what I, where I was seeing that like getting them young is more like, like getting them young into the more deeper movie fandom kind of approach. I dunno.

[00:49:48] JONNY: It's funny, it's funny you mentioned that, cuz I think for all the same reasons, uh, those same people when they get to that age, they'll just go back and watch the old movies. And I had a thought while you were saying that, which is like, they're gonna be having the same conversation as to like, are they gonna remake the prequels?

[00:50:05] Oh, they fucking can't do that. Like, they're gonna be having like a

[00:50:07] conversation about it

[00:50:08] JOSH: well, that conversation's been happening I think since 1999.

[00:50:12] JONNY: but you know what I'm trying to say? I'm talking about, I'm talking about like the, the kids who

[00:50:15] grew up like obsessed with Hayden Christensen

[00:50:17] JOSH: I know.

[00:50:18] JONNY: is Anakin and like all these people, they're like, they're gonna be having the same conversation and then like, and then like, I feel like when you get down to that point where a fan is gonna be watching the stuff for decades, that's a level of interest that's make them, that's gonna make them want to go back as a young. Watching movies. I didn't know The Wizard of Oz was an old movie. I didn't know Mary Poppins was an old movie. They were just movies, you know? And then as I got older, I was like, oh yeah, that's from like 1939. I had like, back in 1986, I had no idea. You

[00:50:51] know, I

[00:50:51] BRACEY: but dude, this generation of kids are so much more media literate than we were. Like, they're so much more media literate on so many different facets that like, it's not the same thing.

[00:51:03] It, it's like it's like us looking back for, it's like us looking at the v the vaudeville era and trying to be

[00:51:10] entertained.

[00:51:11] Like, like that's, that's, it's a huge difference

[00:51:14] JONNY: Um, I still maintain though, that if, if, if you have enough interest and enough dedication to something that you're actually curious about the old thing, you'll just go back and see it.

[00:51:23] JOSH: No, that's true. And again, it just depends on, I mean, it's a numbers game. It depends

[00:51:26] JONNY: yeah. What's

[00:51:27] JOSH: like is that

[00:51:28] JONNY: the bank?

[00:51:29] JOSH: Yeah. And like we don't know how, like what the prevailing, like what the vast majority of that age group is going to be doing, I think is the,

[00:51:38] JONNY: uh, and Josh, when you were talking about, uh, the Obi-Wan shows more of a follow up to Revenge of the Sith.

[00:51:44] I feel like the TV shows are kind of like that for Return of the Jedi compared to The Force Awakens, like the Mandalorian and the Book of Boba Fat are as direct sequels to Return of the Jedi compared to The Force Awakens. Like I feel like they're kind of mirroring each other in that sense.

[00:51:59] JOSH: Oh yeah, I'd agree with that.

[00:52:01] BRACEY: So my should, my, should comes down to I, I like, I feel like after this conversation, I don't believe they should, unless they're going back and they're making one through six.

[00:52:12] JOSH: Agree, agree.

[00:52:14] BRACEY: I I don't think they should be go

[00:52:15] back and

[00:52:16] JONNY: The Phantom Menace to the

[00:52:17] BRACEY: Yeah. I think like if they, if they go back, if they're like, we're, we're, we're gonna do this, um, uh, then I think they should do it because I think like, uh, with all the, the whining, I think they'll be a lot less whining.

[00:52:33] Um, uh, uh, because like people will be like, oh, I'm sacra, I'm losing the original trie, but I am gaining like a new, a new, uh, a more refined, um, prequels. And then like, and likewise the people who are like, like, oh, I can't believe the prequels they're making. But then like, oh, but like, I've been waiting for them to redo the originals

[00:52:53] and and then.

[00:52:54] JONNY: it like a

[00:52:54] JOSH: good.

[00:52:55] JONNY: if they did, if they made it like say like a, one shot sort of mini-series for television the way they do and or something like that. Like you were saying before where it's like hour long episodes and they made it like a 12 whatever episode, 15 episode season. You think they might do it that way because that way it won't be the movies.

[00:53:16] It would just be like, I don't know what, but even then, like I'm not even sure if they would do that unless they're like going, unless they invent a new character to tell the same stories in different perspective. Like it's just like, I don't, I think with the kids get old enough, they're gonna probably want to go back and watch the old stuff anyway.

[00:53:33] JOSH: I think it all depends on their market research

[00:53:35] and I think it all depends on, you know, things we don't know about, um, how we're gonna be consuming media and what is gonna resonate with generations younger, than us. Like the interesting thing I'm, you know, realizing now is like we are the wrong people to be having this, conversation.

[00:53:52] Cuz you know, we're talking about stuff that's not specifically not for us. It's not, targeted at us.

[00:53:58] JONNY: if you really wanna get conceptual. we're even thinking about ways of like watching the ways we watch movies and consume media. Now, the ways we consume media in the future could be far different. So like, they might be making new things for things like, uh, beyond virtual reality, beyond things where you actually have, you are an active participant.

[00:54:18] Like, like there, there are certain things that like we cannot predict because they haven't been invented yet. So like it, you know what I'm trying to say,

[00:54:26] JOSH: here son, here's a pill. This is Star Wars.

[00:54:34] JONNY: Wow.

[00:54:35] JOSH: You want your blue pill or your red pill? One's? The prequels. When's the original trilogy? Uh, what about the sequel thing? I heard about a, a sequel. Oh, you don't even wanna touch that shit.

[00:54:45] BRACEY: No, no, no, no, no.

[00:54:47] JOSH: that shit will fuck you up.

[00:54:50] BRACEY: uh, so, uh, it wasn't something that I was going to, uh, throw into the mix of everything that we were already talking about, but I do believe, and that is also why I, I, I kind of give that time horizon. I do believe that in, in the not too distant future, the medium in which this is delivered on is going to be something that is a little bit more, um, custom tailored in ways that like, tailoring it to the end. Um, uh, the, the, the audience member that is, is viewing it,

[00:55:18] And I don't, I don't think, with the access to AI and, uh, uh, a real-time capability, real-time rendering capabilities, that that wouldn't be part of the storytelling. Where like the, there are elements that are identified that could better be tailored to the person that is watching it, that will get them more invested in the story without actually affecting the core story elements.

[00:55:44] And like, I feel like that's the, that's, that's whatever that comes out as is gonna be

[00:55:50] JONNY: At that point. To me.

[00:55:52] JOSH: snatch, it's Star Wars Bander Snatch.

[00:55:53] BRACEY: yeah.

[00:55:54] JOSH: And you can watch it horizontally or vertically.

[00:55:59] JONNY: backwards. Uh, to me that's not even like a conversation of them remaking the movies as much as like, it's just a new thing, like entirely that's like, that's like you can play like the original trilogy on Super Nintendo. That's like a totally different thing. To me, what we're talking about now is like, that's not even like a, that's just like a whole thing that's like, like everyone will do that for every single, uh, thing.

[00:56:25] If, if, if you can actually like be actually experiencing it. That's like a whole new

[00:56:30] BRACEY: Oh, but I'm not even talking about a, I'm even talking about just watching it as a 2D element. They can take elements from the model, from your data, from what you watch, and they can apply that to, uh, uh, to how they're real time generating the uh, uh, and you're watching it as a film. I

[00:56:43] JONNY: but to me that's still like a, but I, I still think that's kind of like a new thing anyway, because we're, I, I think like given the parameters of everyone seeing the same product, Old school, the way that we watch a movie now, I don't necessarily think they're gonna go back to that, but if they're, if they're involving, like breaking the fourth wall and making it more like catered to the individual, then it's like, fucking everyone will do that.

[00:57:10] JOSH: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah, like, I think here we're getting to a question, that is, kind of another question about like, what is the form we're gonna be consuming media generally. And the one thing that I will say in regards to, you know, the customization of the, the experience for the viewer or the end user or however you want to term it, is that while I do think that is a, a horizon that will, open up for storytelling.

[00:57:39] I also do think that is not a replacement. I think there will, always, be sort of a desire to be told a story that is not, a bespoke or a participatory experience, right? So, so I think, what you're talking about Bracey, and I could be wrong, but I think that, , What you're talking about is a form of media, a form of storytelling that I don't think will replace the one way mode of, communication that sort of film and TV represents, right now.

[00:58:10] Like, I don't think it'll be a replacement for that. I think it'll be something that is another option that, will, compete for our attention and eyeballs along with, film and tv. I mean, that's my, my take on it.

[00:58:25] BRACEY: I, I just asked chat, g p t To summarize the original Star Wars movie As a haiku,

[00:58:31] JOSH: Oh my God. Okay.

[00:58:33] BRACEY: a young Jedi rises with droids and princess in tow. Dark Lord, he defeats.

[00:58:40] JONNY: that's not wrong.

[00:58:43] BRACEY: Um, and I was just using it cuz I was like, I, I honestly, you know, I do believe, uh, there is gonna be that like, weird crossover period, but uh, like as soon as people buy it, as soon as people are actually willing to put their attention on it, I think that's when they sh they make that shift. And if it, uh, I think the moment it starts to be presented as, uh, a, an option right next to a Star Wars movie or a show, I feel like your, like our, our outside, uh, perspective of what is generating that movie doesn't really matter at that point because like, it's literally gonna be in the same place as, as the original Star Wars film.

[00:59:25] It one might be a little interactive in a way that's like passive interactivity. It's taking elements of your model, but. Like, you know, I, I, I can, I, I can see arguments that it isn't the same thing, but I also very, at the very core, it's like it doesn't matter if we as consumers act the same way, if we as consumers

[00:59:45] JOSH: Yes. Right. No, I agree with you. What I'm saying is that I don't think that for consumers that will, the thing that they would rather do every single time.

[00:59:56] JONNY: Hmm.

[00:59:56] BRACEY: oh,

[00:59:57] JONNY: I think, and also too, if you wanna have a, if the ability to like talk about things with everybody, like it's, it's a bit weird because no, no one's gonna be able to talk about what you're talking about.

[01:00:09] Cuz it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like talking about your, it's like, oh, I had a dream. You had a dream.

[01:00:13] Let's talk about our dreams. It's like, it's, it's not the same. Like you

[01:00:16] BRACEY: Aren't we dealing with that right now, though? Isn't that the, isn't it the whole point? Like the, the, like the media fractioning and like people aren't able to talk about the same

[01:00:25] the same stuff except for the fact that we have a Star Wars podcast and obviously

[01:00:29] JONNY: yeah. I was gonna say

[01:00:30] BRACEY: we're,

[01:00:30] grateful for everybody who's taking the time to listen to us now.

[01:00:32] JOSH: Well,

[01:00:33] JONNY: But like I, but we're all, we're all consuming different media, but, but you, it's still possible to see the same exec media. Like if you're talking about like a, like if you're talking about like a song or a movie or a show or literally of anything. Um, if you, if you see it, you see it, and then if somebody else sees it, they see it, they might see, they might have different thoughts on it, but if you have, uh, media that's given you a different product by just because you as an individual have with an algorithm and feature technology, whatever, you wouldn't be able to talk about it in the same sense as to like, we've all seen the same movie.

[01:01:07] We all know what we're talking about. Uh, so that culturally speaking, I think is a reason why it will never fully replace the way that we watch stuff now. Like books with paper still exist, you know, stuff like that.

[01:01:23] JOSH: Right. No, I mean, that's a good point. It's like, you know, the novel still exists as a form of entertainment. It's not the, dominant form of entertainment that it, that it, you know, was in the 19th century, I mean, or even the 20th century, frankly. But yet it still exists and there are still, people who seek it out and who appreciate that form for what it does well.

[01:01:44] Um, I am not embarrassed to say that. I don't completely understand what it is we're talking about fully, um, , but

[01:01:56] JONNY: Well, the way, the way that I interpret it is like if, if I'm watching a movie

[01:02:00] and giving, given my, given what

[01:02:03] the computer thinks I like, they might recast someone with a different actor compared to the actor that you're seeing.

[01:02:08] Like that's the way, and it's like we can't talk

[01:02:11] JOSH: Yes.

[01:02:11] JONNY: If I saw with Tom Hanks

[01:02:12] and you saw with Tom Cruise, it's a

[01:02:13] different

[01:02:13] movie,

[01:02:14] JOSH: no. Yeah. So, but it's just, we're approaching a level of like, hypothetical on hypothetical. We're approaching a level of abstraction where it's like, I'm not sure. I, I'm not sure I am following the conversation. 100% that said, I think.

[01:02:30] there's a distinction to be drawn, that I believe will make, the sort of dictatorial creator, viewer, reader, straight line. Um, something that, uh, remains a, viable source of artistic expression. Because I think ultimately at the end of the day, I think that that art, whether it's film, drama, the written word, music, I think it's about communicating human experience.

[01:02:58] It's about communicating ideas about, Human experience. And I think that while there is a place for the bespoke, , algorithmically, generated content, that is something that I think will be entertaining and will, you know, will occupy your time. but ultimately I think it's kind of empty calories, because it's like when you try to read into it or you try to, kind of understand on a deeper level, like what is the idea, what is the point of view that is trying to be imparted here?

[01:03:32] You know, that there is no single human mind at work that is trying to communicate something to you underneath

[01:03:40] JONNY: a different point of view. You're just showing, you're just seeing your point of view in an echo chamber.

[01:03:44] JOSH: Yeah. well, I mean, not to say that like you wouldn't be able to read something into what you're being shown, but I'm saying that is a level of engagement with, a piece of art or with a text that goes beyond, just the superficial of what you're being shown.

[01:04:02] Like you try, to pick it apart. You try to understand, why you are being told this thing in this way that I still think is a, a pleasure or a necessary function. of art that is created, by humans. And that's, uh, I think something, you know, whether or you articulated in that way or not, I think that's something that, we need and will continue to be a necessity.

[01:04:28] So, so I don't know that when we're talking about, say Star Wars, the movie, I don't know that any, form of, of ai, you know, VR experience will completely supplant the movie from 1977. That was the artistic vision of one man realized through the talents and the perspectives of, many others around him, but that artistic vision, that intent to communicate something in a specific way to reach a specific audience with a specific, intent, like that's something that I think is the animating, , force, I guess pun intended, actually. , that is at the heart of all Star Wars.

[01:05:14] So like you can have a Star Wars experience that is completely designed to, your particular, buttons. but I, I think that that will never completely supplant. you know, old-fashioned, movies, uh,

[01:05:29] novels, uh,

[01:05:30] BRACEY: I, yeah, I, I.

[01:05:32] JONNY: I agree with.

[01:05:33] BRACEY: I, I, for the most part, I, I agree with that. I think, uh, uh, what I'm speaking more is like translating the elements that don't necessarily communicate over the way that it was intended. And that, and not changing the course story, but actually being able to understand what, what is being said, and, uh, making it more accessible to other people.

[01:05:52] As that technology becomes more and more available, that's going to be applied to our media. And even though it comes out in the, as a, in a very similar form, it's gonna be something that is, is is more, more and more tailored. So more and more people can access

[01:06:07] JOSH: Uh, could you give me an example? cuz I'm not exactly sure I'm following.

[01:06:10] BRACEY: uh, yeah. So, uh, if the movie was originally shot in a, in a way that's like highlighting characters, um, In a certain landscape that like, uh, uh, if somebody is colorblind, uh, uh, the way that it was shot, uh, doesn't really help that person see due to contrast issues. But then, like it can in real time modify the film.

[01:06:33] So the color correction, like, uh, and things like that itself is changed. And like, uh, that wasn't what the original creator had intended when they had color corrected the film and shot it and set everything up. But that real time modification allows somebody who is colorblind to actually enjoy the film in a way that they actually get all the elements the same way that we put captions there.

[01:06:56] No filmmaker, not, not no filmmaker, but most filmmakers aren't thinking of having captions as part of their film unless there's a part where they want, they, they want to express somebody's opinion through, through captions. Um, but. Inevitably it modifies the film from accessibility. And I think that capability is expanding and we're gonna see that expand and, and reach deeper into what we think of as the actual core meat of a film.

[01:07:23] And that's kind of what I'm saying is like, that's, that's that, like we could, you could go off into the, the VR and the immersive side as well, but I think even before that, there's levels of accessibility of expanding the universe for people who don't necessarily, uh, uh, uh, have a perspective on it the way that we do because it's, you know, there's a, a certain of level of, of ableism that we, we have just kind of taken for granted that allows, that they, they can't even get to the point that we're at.

[01:07:53] So that, that, that was more what I was talking

[01:07:55] about,

[01:07:56] JONNY: that's interesting.

[01:07:58] JOSH: Um,

[01:08:00] JONNY: We literally the same thing at the same time.

[01:08:03] Uh,

[01:08:04] BRACEY: Oh, uh, uh, you guys saw that there, there's a video going around of this new, like AI replacement of the face. So, uh, uh, so people can dub in other languages and it matches with the mouth. Uh, that's another way that I feel like that's about to like,

[01:08:22] JOSH: That's crazy.

[01:08:23] BRACEY: influence, uh, our cinema. And that's, uh, that's already happening now.

[01:08:28] Um, and it's starting to find its way into movies, into, uh, uh, like Netflix, like streaming services because it's like, it's such a big deal. You have this movie, uh, uh, uh, you lose a lot of people who aren't willing to watch it with subtitles, uh, because it's harder and like, and now, uh, now they're utilizing that tool to make it so they can customize it for e each and every, um, viewing audience.

[01:08:52] JOSH: That's

[01:08:53] super interesting. Uh, uh, that's a very interesting application of the technology. Yeah. I'm starting to get what you're talking about.

[01:09:01] JONNY: I actually had a question, to go back to the original quote, being like, this is low key, underrated, basically under the assumption that this movie is not what he assumed it would be because it was an old movie to him.

[01:09:13] Uh, do you have your own examples of a movie that you had an expectation of what it was gonna be and then like a classic that you just didn't see because you're like, oh yeah. Like, I know there's this old movie and like, it's supposed to be pretty good, but I I you just avoided it and then when you finally watched it, you're like, this is not what I expected it to be.

[01:09:31] In a good way. I actually have a couple of examples, but I want to

[01:09:34] BRACEY: Dead Poet Society.

[01:09:35] JONNY: Yeah, yeah. Interesting. Because that's movie, that movie is of our generation too. Like, it came out when we were like seven or eight years old or something like that.

[01:09:46] BRACEY: Yeah. It can't. Yeah. Um, but I never, it, it wasn't, it exactly. It wasn't a movie for me at the time that I, it was, it was, it was coming out and then when I watched it, I was like, this has all the markings of that time period,

[01:09:59] but it's also really good . This is a really good movie.

[01:10:02] JONNY: Yeah. It's like this is a solid movie.

[01:10:04] JOSH: I honestly can't think of an example where I saw something that had a reputation. that wasn't what I expected. I do have a lot of examples that are coming to mind of, you know, movies that I try to engage with when I was younger, like in high school that I knew were like, quote unquote classics that I don't know, I. Got for whatever reason that now as an adult, I sit down and I watch it and it's like a completely different viewing experience. It's like a completely different thing where I'm like, oh, this is what that was. And I don't know if it's because, you know, I didn't have the life experience or I didn't have the, you know, I wasn't like, as good at interacting with media that wasn't made for

[01:10:52] me and my sensibility. Yes. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So, I'm sure it's a combination of the two. It's, it's, being more literate, and also like I am older and have more life experiences, so I can relate to more of the things that are in there and they're more meaningful to me.

[01:11:06] JONNY: Sure. That's

[01:11:08] JOSH: but uh, what are your examples?

[01:11:09] JONNY: Well, two movie. I have examples for both of those things. Uh, two movies that I saw that I had totally different ideas of what they were and they weren't. Those things were Lawrence of Arabia and Saturday Night Fever. Uh, Lawrence of Arabia I thought was gonna be like an Arrow Flynn Swashbuckling Desert Adventure.

[01:11:29] And it's not, it's like an anti-war movie. And it's like, great. It's deep, it's amazing. And then, uh, Saturday Night Fever, I thought it was just like a John Travolta disco party movie, and it's not, it has a lot more to do with mean streets than anything else. And it's like really fucking dark and depressing and I was like, this movie is not what I thought.

[01:11:49] But when you think of Saturday Night Fever, you just think of the white suit, him pointing his finger up in the air and like the Bee Gees and the opening scene of him walking down the sidewalk eating pizza. You're like, yeah, I know what this movie's gonna be. And you watch it and you're like, Jesus Christ.

[01:12:03] Like this is like, this is like a dark fucking movie. And then, um, it's not what I thought. And then to your point, uh, Josh, uh, I remember watching Eyes Wide Shut when I came out cuz uh, well, we, I was like 18 and uh, or so it came out, I was, I think I a senior in high school or something like that. I watched it and I was like, yeah, Stanley Kubrick, he's the best.

[01:12:26] Let's watch this movie. And I was like, yeah, this movie's weird. I think I know what's going on. Like, I guess they're, you know, having marital problems and as a weird orgy and like, that was an interesting experience. And then I watched it in my thirties as a grown man and in a committed adult relationship.

[01:12:44] And I was like, oh fuck, , like this movie, like, is totally different. And likewise, I just watched, um, SA Private Ryan like maybe like a year or two ago. Again, I hadn't seen it since college. When we were in college, I was like, this is the craziest fucking war movie. And then that's an adult. , I was just crying through the whole movie because of the weight of the toll of the, the cost of war over everything.

[01:13:10] So, I don't know, I just think it's interesting, like different perspectives of like when we get older and then like thinking of like assuming what something's gonna be and then we actually see it and it's like not what we thought.

[01:13:21] JOSH: No, that's actually really interesting. that you, brought up Kubrick because several of the examples that I had in mind when I said what I said were Stanley Kubrick movies. I was thinking of 2001 as Space Odyssey. I was thinking of Dr.

[01:13:33] Strangelove. I was thinking of, I mean, basically like yeah, like that's an example where, where it's not just me though. Like I actually think, like Stanley Kubrick's an example where a lot of people, most people have that experience with a Stanley Kubrick movie where like, it takes like 2, 3, 4, 5 viewings to fully digest it.

[01:13:54] And makes me, think of, Guillermo Del Toro quote that I just came across recently where he was like, make your weakness, your strengths.

[01:14:05] JONNY: Mm

[01:14:06] JOSH: that's, and that's your style. And he used the example of Stanley Kubrick where he was like, you know, you look at his earlier movies and they're like kind of, stodgy and meticulous and like kind of lifeless.

[01:14:23] and what Kubrick did was he, he leaned into that and he made that his style where like, that's how he sees things. and then like that, that becomes like a Stanley Kubrick movie,

[01:14:37] JONNY: And by leaning into it, you see the humanity in something that seems o ostensibly very cold, like

[01:14:43] 2001 Or something like

[01:14:45] that, which. or he is an eyes wide shut.

[01:14:47] Yeah, exactly. like

[01:14:48] it's a very cold, cold stance on everything. But you, but when you watch it, you feel uncomfortable and you're just like, oh, whoa.

[01:14:54] Everything's like you. You're starting to do the work for the movie. You're projecting onto it.

[01:14:59] JOSH: Yeah. I mean, eyes Wide shut is, is is crazy because it's like, you know, when it came out or the first time you watch it, it's a hard watch because like, there's a weird, there's like a tension there where it, it feels very cold and sterile. yet the subject matter is like so primal and passionate and, and intimate.

[01:15:17] Anyway, this is not a Stanley Kubrick podcast,

[01:15:19] JONNY: but I mean, like, I

[01:15:20] wonder what like, go, going back to the, to the, to the dude who watched, uh, star Wars and said it was , low key, underrated. I wonder what he thought Star Wars would be. When he saw the original movie, and I wonder if he thought it was gonna be like, uh, some Humphrey Bogart movie to him or something, and I wonder what he got out of it.

[01:15:38] Did he get the same thing that we got out of it or did he get something totally different out of it? Like I, or like, I wonder if he saw it with our eyes now, or if he sees it in connection to all of like the cannon that exists outside of those movies. You know? So

[01:15:53] I wonder, I wonder, wonder that is for him.

[01:15:55] JOSH: Yeah. I mean, I presume, and again, I reached out to him because I would love to, uh, to put these questions to him. Like, I mean, just outta curiosity, um, I presume he was reading it in the context of the cannon that's already out there, and he probably assumed that like the special effects,

[01:16:11] wouldn't hold up.

[01:16:13] JONNY: Yeah.

[01:16:13] JOSH: Um, I mean that's what I, what I presume it's like, you know, it's like if you're to watch, I don't know. I mean, I feel like now I'm, I'm pretty open to watch, to watch anything and I can kind of engage with it on its own terms. But like, you know, I mean, again, like there was a time where as a kid, black and white would be kind of a barrier for me.

[01:16:33] JONNY: Mm-hmm. for a lot of people.

[01:16:35] BRACEY: Unless it was Laurel Hardy for me, like I was, I was huge fan of Laurel and Hardy back in the

[01:16:40] day.

[01:16:40] JOSH: mean, for me, like I, like I love Lucy and, uh,

[01:16:43] JONNY: uh. Yeah, yeah. yeah. Sub sub subtitles are a very big barrier for a lot of people. Uh,

[01:16:51] JOSH: Well anyway, I feel like we, have gone through the pros and cons enough. to wrap it up though, where do we fall on each of these questions?

[01:16:59] will they, and should they, or would they, and should they? Jon?

[01:17:06] JONNY: Uh,

[01:17:07] JOSH: and should they

[01:17:09] JONNY: I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll do, I'll do three of them cause I'll include Will, uh, will they? Probably not. No, I don't think so. Would they? They would do literally anything from money. I think that's just the nature of Hollywood. Uh, should they, no. I feel like, uh, as a piece of culture, as a piece of art, uh, just leave it the way it is and just make new stuff and make new stuff that will reflect back onto that.

[01:17:38] So you can see the trajectory of the history of cinema and the history of our own art and culture. Uh, if you keep going back and redoing. three cha changing history. Um, you lose track as to why you're doing the things you're doing and how we got to where we are now. They need to have the breadcrumbs,

[01:17:57] JOSH: Well said. Bracey, would they, should they, uh, you can answer it the way Jon did as well. Will they, would they, should they.

[01:18:05] BRACEY: Okay. Yeah. Will they, uh, yeah. As I made the prediction, I'm, I'm, I'm pretty confident they

[01:18:10] will, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh would they, yeah, like assuming that like. The numbers, uh, the numbers align and, and, and things make, uh, sense and, and, uh, should they, um, uh, yeah, absolutely. Because, um, like, uh, I think, I think I, I'm happy in knocking down this gatekeeping, um, uh, that I feel like emerges from the sense that, uh, uh, that we have to keep these things sacred.

[01:18:36] Like, like the stories, like stories are meant to grow and be retold and like, I feel like, um, uh, yeah, I, I, I, I see only a brighter future in, in, in a, in, in, in a world where we're retelling these stories and not, uh, uh, necessarily gatekeeping them.

[01:18:53] JONNY: It's funny because, uh, the, it is like two different, totally different perspectives and yet, like, I don't necessarily disagree with everything that you're saying. I think it's just like y it's funny because I was talking about it as art and you were talking about it as story and it's like those are kind of two different.

[01:19:11] Things. Oh no. I just find 'em interesting.

[01:19:14] JOSH: Well, well, it's also interesting too, cuz I don't disagree with what either one of you said, but I think, you know, there is, I don't know that you can separate form from the story. It's like, I mean, you can, but then it becomes something fundamentally different, which I think is the point that you're making Bracey.

[01:19:32] It's like, we can and should make it something new and different. and that only makes the original that much more special and unique, because it was a rendering of that story in the way that it only could be and only will ever be.

[01:19:49] Um, so will they, would they, should they, will they, well, is this not so straightforward? I guess it depends on what you mean by remake. Like, now that we've sort of, busted it open,

[01:20:00] BRACEY: We mean everything.

[01:20:01] JONNY: If you wanna remake it as something totally new and different, then yeah, they probably will. But if you just wanna remake like a, just like a, a standard movie, the way

[01:20:09] we

[01:20:10] JOSH: Like 120 minute, like theatrical film, I don't think they will, would they? Yes, absolutely. Of course they would.

[01:20:16] JONNY: Mm-hmm.

[01:20:17] JOSH: Should they? for me to say.

[01:20:20] JONNY: as a standalone movie. Just a movie.

[01:20:24] I

[01:20:24] don't think they should. If they make a whole new, brand new thing, then like, I don't know. What is it? I'm, I might be curious. ,

[01:20:29] you

[01:20:30] JOSH: look like,

[01:20:31] like, it's a strange, it's a tricky question because I'm a firm believer that you should be willing to engage with a text, you know, be it a movie or whatever, in the way that it was originally, you know, intended. Cuz I don't think you can separate the restrictions of the medium and the form that it is from the content.

[01:20:53] I think that, that, that, that influences the content. Um, so I think there's value to. You know, not making them inaccessible, Bracey, but, but I think there is value in, you know, engaging with things on it, their terms and trying to understand the context and the everything. But that said, like, not everyone is going to do that.

[01:21:15] Not everyone should have, to do that, to experience a work. Um, I think Star Wars is, populist enough and certainly grand enough and multifaceted that there are so many, so many accessible things. So many ways into the story, ways into the universe. And also like Star Wars. I mean, I said it before, like Star Wars is not just a movie.

[01:21:39] it is a mythological framework. It is a mythical, You know, it is a fictional universe. most crassly it's a brand. And, where for Star Wars to be relevant enough to, to be remade for anyone to care, like it is kind of in a different class than just remaking a movie.

[01:22:00] It's like, there's like more at play here. So

[01:22:03] should they? I don't know, man.

[01:22:07] well, thank you Bracey and Jon for, uh, Very interesting discussion. I went in some places I didn't quite predict. Um, but yeah, it was a lot of fun. And, uh, that wraps up this special edition Trash Compactor episode for Star Wars Podcast Day 2023. We will be having more episodes drop later this year. If you like what you heard, please subscribe and rate the show.

[01:22:30] We are trash com pod across all social media. Transcripts of this episode and all our other episodes can be found@trashcompod.com and we will see you on the next one.