#49 – NOISE, VOLUME & DEFIANCE: Folk the Empire

[00:00:00] JOSH: Welcome to Trash Compactor. I'm Josh and we're back. We're back with our first episode of 2025 and What a year it has already been. I think it's safe to say that these are dark times. but I think, or I hope, the interview I'm about to share with you might at least be a little dosage of the cure for what ails us and the fuel that we need to keep going forward.

[00:00:22] You know, on this podcast we've talked a lot about how Star Wars has inspired works of passionate creativity, be it in the form of fan art, fan fiction, fan films. And today, we're going to be hearing about some Star Wars influenced music. Not too long ago, I had the extreme pleasure of interviewing a Star Wars folk group called FOLK THE EMPIRE, and I am excited beyond measure to share that interview with you today.

[00:00:49] These guys are insanely special and make amazing music, and I just love everything about them and what they do, and I hope you enjoy my conversation with them. So, without further ado, trash Compactor is proud to present FOLK THE EMPIRE.
 

[00:01:07] JOSH: Welcome FOLK THE EMPIRE to Trash Compactor. Thanks for being here.

[00:01:11] FOLK THE EMPIRE: Thanks for having us. Absolute honor.

[00:01:14] JOSH: The honor’s all mine, believe me. Um, so if you guys could introduce yourselves and just say, what you do in the band or what you're responsible for. 

[00:01:23] FOLK THE EMPIRE: Right. Uh, my name is Eric and I play banjo. Um, I'm sort of the, I guess the, the swirling epicenter of FOLK THE EMPIRE. We'll get into that a little later. But, um, yeah, so I play banjo. Uh, my name is Chris and I play guitar. And he dragged me into it. Yeah. My name's Mike. Uh, I play cajon, sometimes backup vocals.

[00:01:48] You also sing backup vocals as well, Chris.

[00:01:51] JOSH: Yeah, so I came across you guys, um, some social media feed. Obviously, I'm into Star Wars. I do a Star Wars podcast. Um, and so the algorithm serves me Star Wars content and, like, anti fascist content. And you guys are at the intersection of those two things, which I want to get into a little bit later, but I think, I can't think of another way to start this conversation, other than asking you, how does one come to start a Star Wars folk band?

[00:02:22] FOLK THE EMPIRE: One follows a dream of playing the banjo, and through the banjo, you know, there's, I don't want to go too far into it, but I will say that the style of banjo I play, Clawhammer, takes us back to like 1880, 1890, all the way to the 1920s and 30s. And it has a legacy as Folk music and fight music and the news of the land.

[00:02:49] And so I ended up having to do a writer's workshop and someone suggested that I make a song. I had nothing really to write about. I knew, I mean, I grew up in punk rock. Uh, Chris grew up in punk rock. We both played in bands together. Can we cut that out of the episode? Um, and so I, I just started goofing around and I think the first song I wrote.

[00:03:15] was, uh, Rebel Scum, which was just, uh, my idea of what a rebel recruitment song would sound like. You know, I pictured somebody sitting in the barracks, wailing away on some kind of instrument and just rallying people with this song. Uh, and so that's really the impetus of it. That stayed in that scope for a couple months where I wrote maybe five or six songs.

[00:03:43] And I don't know if you've heard the band Slimo at all. They are, uh, like a heavy metal band. They sing all in hoodies and they're also from, yeah, they're from our area. They're from Rhode Island. And so I ended up just finding them through the algorithm. They invited us to play a show. Well, they invited me to play a show and I got so scared that I was like, I need more people.

[00:04:09] So I recruited, uh, Mike on the cajon who, uh, You want to talk a little bit about your background? Yeah, absolutely. Um, I mean, I've been in bands before. Um, you know, and Eric and I were always looking for some sort of creative outlet together. We have a lot of shared interest. Um, so when Eric was talking about his music and I offered.

[00:04:31] At some point, whether it was, you know, to be in a band or record something for him to add percussion, uh, to his music, if it, it was something that he wanted to do. Um, so just invited him over one day, brought his banjo and played some of his music. And I had a cajon, uh, sitting in my house. Uh, never really played it before.

[00:04:49] It was given to me by my father in law. But I, you know, did a little bit of research and by the time Eric had come over, I had a relative idea of what it was capable of, not necessarily what I was capable of, but we sort of just immediately had some sort of musical connection there. between his music and just what I had to bring to the table.

[00:05:11] Now, I am by no means a traditional cajon player. I don't know the first thing about the right or wrong way to play. Um, but there was just something that just seemed to click, something that connected. It was Yeah, it was pretty awesome. And so we rounded out between the two of us, I think four or five songs in one night.

[00:05:30] We just sat down and played and it came together. And then, um, Chris, you want to talk about your background at all? Sure. So I played with Eric for a long time, a long time ago. And another band in the galaxy farther away. And, um, when he first started playing, he wanted to record some of the songs. And, uh, he was nervous about recording with someone.

[00:05:54] So he just kind of came to my house and we went into my back room and we recorded the first couple of songs that he recorded on and put up on Bandcamp. Uh, then he went and hung out with Mike for a bit and we were hanging out separate from this and he said, man, I hung out with Mike and the song sounded really, really good with Cajon.

[00:06:12] Do you want to play guitar? And I was not doing anything. And I said, sure. I was holding my breath to see where you were going to go with that. I was like, Oh, come on, please sell this. Um, and so, yeah, so it came together and quickly, quickly within the space of about three weeks, it was probably closer to four or five weeks, but we, we played like a pre show before that Slimo show.

[00:06:36] Yeah, it was really quick considering. We're all. You know, like, 40s, 50s, we all have full time jobs, you know. This guy's got two little kids, he's, you know, he's got, like, his school children and all that stuff. And, uh, yeah, and then within a couple weeks after becoming a trio, we ended up, uh, playing in front of a sold out crew of 250 metalheads.

[00:07:01] And weirdly enough, that's become our bread and butter, is playing, playing metal shows. Um, I think everything we've done so far has either been at metal record stores or opening for metal bands. Um, it's, it's the crossover there. I think the metal community is fantastically curious and I think that they're great with acceptance, uh, of whatever kind of crazy route people want to go, um, more so than say, like, You know, the traditional folk community and stuff like that.

[00:07:34] JOSH: Oh, that's interesting. Um, you guys said so much. I was writing down so many questions. Um,

[00:07:40] FOLK THE EMPIRE: We've been waiting for this. We've been waiting for interviews. We practice all the time.

[00:07:44] JOSH: I, I understand. Um, Mike, real quick for the benefit of our listeners. I didn't know what a cajon was. Could you just explain what that is?

[00:07:55] FOLK THE EMPIRE: Yeah, so I didn't know what a cajon was either.

[00:07:58] JOSH: Okay, good. I don't feel bad then.

[00:08:01] FOLK THE EMPIRE: But traditionally, it's a wooden box that the percussionist sits on top of, and it's traditionally played with hands. There's multiple kinds. Um, mine has, uh, metal snares inside, similar to a snare drum that you would see on a traditional drum set. So, it's got a little bit more of what you would, I guess, think of with a drum set sound.

[00:08:27] So, I do use a pedal, um, like you would on a traditional drum set for a low end bass sound. And snares, so when I hit it, it sounds like a regular drum, so to say. Um, So, it's, it's been a challenge adapting what I've done in the past, being in rock and metal bands, to just playing on a wooden box with some brushes and one foot.

[00:08:51] Um, but yeah, it's certainly interesting to see me, uh, just sitting on a box, hitting it with my hands.

[00:08:59] JOSH: So Mike and Chris, did you have any background in folk music prior? Doesn't sound like it.

[00:09:07] FOLK THE EMPIRE: I have listened to Simon and Garfunkel in the past because my parents like it. I would say I found two people who have no interest in folk music playing some of the most fun folk music that's being made right now. Um, and it's kind of a blessing. Yeah, we're, I, you know, I think one of the things that people, I listen to a lot of just basically kind of DIY music.

[00:09:32] So it can be hardcore punk or, or just indie rock, that kind of thing. And it's just interesting to play something a little different. I think that's what I like about it. Yeah, no folk background here at all. Zero.

[00:09:49] JOSH: it's really interesting to me because there are so many things going on here simultaneously, all of which are really interesting to me. Um, Though, Eric, I do have to admit that I myself am not a huge fan of have a respect for it, obviously, because as you alluded to, it does have a history you know, you used the terms fight music and news of the land, and certainly most familiar with it from protest music of like the mid 20th century.

[00:10:17] And then obviously there's the Star Wars connection. That actually dovetails really nicely, because Star Wars is about, you know, political and social upheaval, and it also has that DIY aesthetic that you were talking about, that used universe thing, 

[00:10:39] and so, What I think is so cool about your music is that you are mining the like, really fertile raw material in Star Wars to make really, amazing folk music that's consistent with the tradition of folk music. I know I just said a whole ton of stuff, but does any of that

[00:10:56] FOLK THE EMPIRE: And I agree with all of it. Oh, yeah, 

[00:10:58] JOSH: Okay. 

[00:11:00] FOLK THE EMPIRE: To me, the strength of it is that I love that you said, you know, mining that stuff, because that's what I spend so much of the writing process doing. Banjo music is so convoluted in American history, right? It's a, it's a Black art form. Um, it came over, uh, as, you know, um, Black musicians into America.

[00:11:24] It got picked up in the sort of hillbilly, sort of, um, the mountain areas of Appalachia. And it became this really Beautifully sound voice of America and I think anybody who had something to say could say it more so than with produced music. and to me that the parts of Star Wars that I love the most are not necessarily the Jedi stuff or not necessarily the, you know. The Solo and Skywalker stuff. I love the little bits of landscape that we get.

[00:11:57] You know, that, that, that farmer who's desperately trying to pull moisture out of the air to survive, or, think of like dewback farmers, or somebody's out there skinning banthas and milking banthas, and what are these people worried about? What are they thinking about? And it's a way for me to talk about my feelings of modern politic, uh, states of affair, working class, in a way that is a little bit more palatable.

[00:12:26] You know, when we wrote punk music and we wrote stuff, and I, I've written comics before, always worried that there was not enough hiding of layers. There wasn't enough there. And Star Wars, you're right, it's already built in. And so it's just like, okay, Tatooine gonna complain about?

[00:12:42] Here it is. Um, what's a song for a scared rebel or what's a song that's going to work as a recruitment song and what's going to really get somebody to get into the you know what are you listening to to get into the cockpit of an x wing to go against a Death Star like surely you need more than just a friend going hey Good luck!

[00:13:04] Uh, there's gotta be something, and I, I don't know, did you read the Alphabet Squad books by Alexander Freed?

[00:13:12] JOSH: Um, no, I'm familiar with it though. I had read the old Michael Stackpole series;.

[00:13:19] FOLK THE EMPIRE: Oh my god, those are tremendous. 

[00:13:21] JOSH: Yeah. 

[00:13:22] FOLK THE EMPIRE: So Stackpole would bring up, like, invent bands for the characters to listen to, and Alexander Freed did the same thing with a character named Chastna Chattick, and when I was putting this all together, she is a character who collects. Holodiscs of bands. And I was like, desperately trying to figure out what that would sound like or what would drive somebody beyond just, you know, a John Williams soundtrack.

[00:13:53] And, and to me, they would be singing songs that meant stuff to them. You know, these are people fighting for their homes and these are people fighting for their livelihoods against a government that, you know, it's a fascist government. And, and that's when people's voices become the most powerful. I was listening to your Andor episode, getting into Andor episode, and I recently started reading the works of Simone Weil, who was a philosopher during World War II, and she ended up starving herself to death because she got sick and couldn't go back to help people escape out of Europe.

[00:14:32] Um, but she had this theory that there's No such thing as good. There's only balance and evil. And to me, that's, you know, you don't have to be perfect to fight the empire. You don't have to be holier than thou. You just have to know that what you're being fed is wrong and what it's bullshit and push back in even the smallest way.

[00:14:53] And music is one of the most. Capable ways of getting that frustration and anger out, um, and if you can get people to laugh and toe tap and hum, then it's all the better. So,

[00:15:09] JOSH: Yeah. I mean, that's another reason why. Utilizing Star Wars is so great because it is fun. It is like sort of

[00:15:16] on first glance, it's inherently humorous because it's, it's giving this fictional universe this, um, taking it seriously. But then, um, The reason I was really attracted to your music is because, you know, frankly, the songwriting,

[00:15:31] You know, I showed up for the Star Wars folk music, that sounds fun, I'll see what that's like And then I heard the, the words, and then... 

[00:15:46] JOSH: to a friend of mine as a gift.

[00:15:48] FOLK THE EMPIRE!: Wow, that's tremendous, thank you. 

[00:15:50] JOSH: Uh, but yeah, I was surprised how, potent, for lack of a better word, the writing was. Because, you know, similarly to you, um, I think a lot about the times that we're living in. And there's, um, you know, a lot of uncomfortable, resonance with, what I thought were, parables in Star Wars that would never really have much real world application, and then all of a sudden, haha, you might be living through it.

[00:16:13] so, I'm just so fascinated with how, you know, like you were saying, you can use Star Wars to be disarming, and still say exactly what you mean, you know, you can say things like the only good imp is a dead imp, right?

[00:16:29] Whereas if you were to say like the only good, fill in the blank is a dead one, people get their hackles up, you acan't necessarily sing that in polite company, right? so, um, It's just, it's just really incredible how you can express those things and get them out in a real way. The passion behind the performance is clearly real. But it's sort of one step removed. So it kind of makes it more accessible. 

[00:16:54] FOLK THE EMPIRE: I mean, like you said, with Star Wars in general, there's a lighthearted humor to the whole thing, which can kind of temper all the ideas that you're pushing through. Um, I think that was actually one of the first things I tried to convince him of in the first place was, he was originally taking this very seriously.

[00:17:11] And not that we don't take it seriously, but like, there's a humor to it, to it, that, that actually makes it better. And I think when he finally like, when it clicked, he was like, Oh, that's right. We want people to have a good time. We want them to hum along and sing and laugh at stupid jokes, but at the same time, they're getting songs about dead imps and fascism.

[00:17:34] Yeah. Anti fascism.

[00:17:39] JOSH: I mean, you're exactly right. The humor the mixture really is exactly right. You did somehow, I think, thread that needle of, you know, there's just enough kind of irreverent humor that I mean, again, there's some in humor inherent to, treating Gungans and Ewoks and all of these, you know, imaginary creatures as real.

[00:18:02] you know, you don't shy away from that. But the core of it, the heart of what you're making music about is there. 

[00:18:08] FOLK THE EMPIRE: That's something that is a process, you know. We write, you know, the first couple songs were adding and filling out stuff that was already created, but as we've gone beyond that, we've really become sort of a writing troupe. I, I show up, I'll be like, okay, these are lyrics, these are the lines that I will die on, and these are the lines that are totally up for rewrites and grabs.

[00:18:34] And it helps, um, certainly the fact that we all get along so well brings out a lot of that humor, but you're right. It's, you know, for every song we have about rising up and overthrowing, we've got a song about Max Rebo. And we have a lot of conversations about how much to bring. Like, I don't want to be a band that sings, not that I have anything against the ones that do, but I don't want to be a band that sings about, like, Darth Maul and Luke Skywalker and make up songs about those characters.

[00:19:04] I want, and you guys both agree, I believe, that we want this to be as in universe as possible. And a band of our caliber would collect songs, but we might You'd be knowing who Maul is, or we might not know who Chewbacca is. And so therefore the people we choose to sing about have been chosen very, very carefully, uh, to give it that sense of, um, I don't know, uh, je ne sais quoi, uh, but to give, yeah.

[00:19:38] I was, I was just going to say, and we can go into this in more detail later, but you know, we are who we are, but we also have, yeah. As cheesy as it sounds, we do have characters. So we have separate characters with separate names, and those characters in and of themselves exist within the Star Wars universe.

[00:19:56] We're not main characters, we've never interacted with main characters, we're not in the movies, and there's a purpose to that, um, but that also allows us to us to think of these songs from a character's perspective rather than our personal, even though we do have personal feelings and the songs are about very real life things that are happening.

[00:20:16] The, the, the, the characters themselves feel like they are playing a part within a specific period of time. And that time is in the Andor timeline, Rogue One, you know, in that, that timeframe. And, you know, we've even spoken about just keeping the music minimal as well, because the That in and of itself lends one banjo, one guitar, one cardboard box, you know, essentially our characters have to get up and move, right?

[00:20:44] We're part of the resistance. If we're, if we're having a rally somewhere and we're playing music and, and our, our, our hiding place is found, we need to get up and out, you know? So there's, there's more layers of realism than just the lyrics and, you know, the, the, the songwriting. It's the characters. You know, we sort of embody that and try to put that into the music as well.

[00:21:08] JOSH: totally, that is something, um, that I was going to ask you about, because maybe around Halloween, you posted to your social media, I don't know if it was a photo shoot or what, but You guys were dressed in very Star Wars y looking regalia that, like, the roleplay aspect of this is also very cool. 

[00:21:25] FOLK THE EMPIRE: But so hard to explain to loved ones. It 

[00:21:28] JOSH: I, yeah, no, hey man, have a lot of passions and I'm used to not, being understood and having to explain myself, but, um, so I guess on that note. could you reintroduce yourselves, but as, your alter ego personas in the Star Wars universe?

[00:21:45] FOLK THE EMPIRE: Uh, so I am Exlyn Strump, Kier Hammerlund, and Jex Zartini. And we are part of the Burgundy Squadron. Yes. I hail from Tatooine. I grew up on a moisture farm not far from the Lars homestead. And to be honest, when you grow up on Tatooine, that's all you ever hear about are the Skywalkers. And it's hard enough to make a living on Tatooine, never mind a name for yourself.

[00:22:11] So At an early age, I got to go to Coruscant and, uh, I studied in the, um, the halls of collections, basically, a library of Congress, if you would, of recordings, and when the Empire came in and my co workers started vanishing, then, uh, it took me a while, but I was The Uh, I think when my, Oster Brath, who was my, my mentor and my main collector, when he disappeared, um, that was when I had to get out of Coruscant.

[00:22:44] And so I, I went looking for a pilot and a ship to get the hell out of there. And I was the captain. Yes. of the Ronto call and, uh, my character was just a wee lad, uh, when the Empire attacked Coruscant. So my family was poor. We lived on level 2, down in the deep depths. So, um, After, uh, You know, my parents were perished in the attack.

[00:23:12] Um, I was a scavenger. Um, you know, worked on electronics, etc. Ended up working and rigging some of the gambling machines there. I got in bad with the, uh, the huts. Um, but also, you wanted to get off the planet. I had no more connections, my parents were dead. Uh, I ended up rigging the Rontos call, uh, and quote unquote fixed it.

[00:23:35] Uh, and that's how I ended up on the ship with these two guys here. And now we travel the galaxy, doing what we do. Yep, and uh, we ended up for a while running Radio Free Alderaan. Which was, uh, an anti or was a pro rebel propaganda machine, uh, but essentially we tried to disrupt as many Imperial signals as humanly possible with noise, volume, and defiance.

[00:24:02] JOSH: Noise, volume, And defiance, is that what you said?

[00:24:04] FOLK THE EMPIRE: noise, volume, and defiance.

[00:24:07] JOSH: I,

[00:24:09] FOLK THE EMPIRE: This is a lot deeper than you thought it was, wasn't 

[00:24:11] JOSH: no, what you, I, I love this so much, I can't, properly express it. Great names, by the way. It's like that, once again, like, as with, the humor and the drama, like, in Star Wars, There's a, a balance you have to strike, and you can't always explain what it is, but that certain, you know, genesequah, it's like, well, this name sounds sci fi, and this name sounds too, You know, North American or whatever, but this name, I don't know why, but it sounds Star Wars, right?

[00:24:42] FOLK THE EMPIRE: There's a science to it. I'm not really a technology person, uh, so for me, I would rather have us look silly making real stuff, like having our names be self selected or chosen, and having them sound a little off than go to one of the generators, and I think there are people out there Use those generators and, and God bless them and, and they're welcome to it.

[00:25:06] It's just not a path that we chose. Um, and so I think for us it's about, and I, it sounds so hokey to say it, but it's about authenticity. Like we want to be, these are the versions of ourselves that would exist in that universe, I think.

[00:25:23] JOSH: Yeah, one of the things that I think really got me, and you just articulated it, You know, is that this isn't a gag, right?

[00:25:32] Like it's not 

[00:25:32] FOLK THE EMPIRE: having fun, right? No, God, no. Um, we take, we take, well, what were we saying? We had said it before that we, don't take our seriousness very seriously. Um, you know, live, we're constantly making jokes. We're constantly being humorous, or at least we think we are. Um, we try to make jokes, you know, we try to make jokes within the but it is all 100 percent earnest, like, and I think that's what makes Comedy work in a way, as well as, like, if I get up there and scream, I'm just another person on the internet screaming.

[00:26:08] Um, but if we can do stuff that, that is endearing, brings people in, makes them comfortable, feeling welcome, feeling like they can joke around with us, then suddenly our message Becomes a little bit more succinct and hits the people we need it to hit. Um, I'm sorry, I'm just going to say it's awfully hard to sing a song with a refrain.

[00:26:30] Like, uh, I wish I was an Ewok in a tree and, and have there not be any humor to it. You know? I keep going back to the Max Rebo song, which is, you know, he's like the patron saint of all Star Wars music. And so he's a hero of ours. Uh, you know, never had a chance to see him live, um, but you have a couple of his recordings and, uh, it's, it's just a chance to like break away.

[00:26:57] Both of us, all three of us, we're older statesmen, we're not kids, and we've been through serious bands, and we've been through serious art, and all that stuff. And this is a chance just for us to blow off steam, have fun. My therapist thinks this is the greatest thing on the planet. He's like, what a way for you to handle the next four years is to just mock it from a Star Wars point of view. And I, the second he said that, it was like, okay, here come the new, here come the whole next couple songs. Um So it's, it's been really a healthy way of dealing with a lot of the bullshit. So when Andor struck and came out, like that just, that to me opened up a legion of things to talk about, and move away from that sort of Skywalker arc, where it was like, okay, now we have street level people who we care about, and I think that, I don't know, my Star Wars is weird Star Wars.

[00:28:01] I love the, the kooky stuff and the strange stuff, but it really speaks to that anti authoritative, anti fascist side of me that I grew up espousing and, and still very much believe in. And it's a great way to, to handle it and take the piss out of it at the same time. 

[00:28:19] JOSH: I totally agree. and yeah, that was, one of my questions. So you said that this whole thing came together pretty quickly. And strangely, don't know exactly why, but I kind of got that sense when I stumbled upon you guys. I think because I immediately, went to YouTube. and I looked at the backlog of when everything was, Publish and I was like, oh, I, I feel like I might be sort of here nearish to the beginning of this. which was surprising because it really did feel like it was something that had existed for a while.

[00:28:52] FOLK THE EMPIRE: So I had tried at the start a couple of different things. The songbook was one path. Um, I had a Substack where I really tried for kind of like, um, like, uh, Alan Lomax. He was, uh, he worked for the Library of Congress collecting music from around the country. And I tried to chronicle the songs that we were writing in that format. Nothing really hit as an independent project until I started working with Mike and Chris. But, for me Andor was where it came together. And we've joked about, you know, doing a set in the Andor, uh, in the Narkina prison garb. Um, if I had, if I had my druthers, we would dress like the honor guard for the Daughters of Ferrix.

[00:29:38] Um, there does come a line, like, what do we want versus what the audience understands. Um, but, um, Not everybody thinks about Star Wars 24 hours a day, I discovered while working on this project, which I think is a crime. But I, you know, so when we talked about it, I was like, oh, we should do a Narkina thing.

[00:30:00] And it was like, well, okay, but that limits the My project has been, or this project has been described as niche on numerous occasions. Um, which I'm now wearing like a badge of honor. Um, but my, you know, it's a, it's a line that we still discuss. Like, what does stage gear look like? You know, we've been adding more and more.

[00:30:21] We've been doing, we just started adding, um, trooper buckets like in, uh, Mandalorian. When you go back to Mos Eisley and they're all hanging there. So we started adding trooper buckets. Um, but it's a line that we're not quite sure where we're at yet. I think that's going to be our next big hurdle is what does the audience understand?

[00:30:42] So far, we've been really fortunate that our audiences have been awesome. Um, the big fun of everything is getting people to sing along and breaking down that wall between performer and audience. That it's a, an experience we invite you to be part of. Excuse me. And I think it was the last time we played, and I don't know if it was you, Chris, or you, Mike, but we just played a, a show in December and we decided to do it completely acoustic.

[00:31:14] Uh, we told the sound guy, take the rest of the night off, shut down all the mics, and we brought everybody in as close as they could come and, and performed, circled by people, um, to give it that kind of, I think the practical acts. Reasoning for it was it made it feel like we were in a bunker. It made it feel like this was life on the run.

[00:31:39] And this is what you're going to get. Here's our 40 minute set. And now we've all got to go grab our stuff and go shoot an ATT down. Uh, ATT. Nah, that, that, um, you know, that, that to me is huge. Um, is, is giving people an experience. as well as 40 Minutes of Fun. And I think it was even at that show where some of the other bands, I think, were even skeptical because they were, you know, we had, we had a, um, you know, a single person act that was playing, you know, his style of, I would say, you know, emo style music, maybe some pop rock, etc.

[00:32:21] And then we, had a two piece, uh, noise metal band that was one of the loudest bands I think I've ever heard play in, in that small area. And then there was us just sitting in a room with everyone standing, you know, just a few feet in front of us. And, and again, I think people were, were skeptical at first, but then we were done playing.

[00:32:43] And, and I think Chris was talking to one of the other members of that metal band. And he was like, yeah, dude, I totally get it now. He's like, I didn't. I didn't know what was going on with the Star Wars and the folk thing. He's like, but I get it. You guys are, are, are the music that plays when everyone's getting like ready to go fight.

[00:33:02] Like that's what, exactly what we're aiming for. You know, we want them to be rally songs and fight songs, like you said, you know? So there is that seriousness to it where. You know, we want that feeling. We want that, that excitement that's building up to something, but you don't quite know what it is yet.

[00:33:19] There's an, there's an uncertainty to it, right? I'm sure when, when they were about to go to battle with the Empire, they didn't know what to expect. They didn't know what was going on. You know, there's, there's kind of that, Hey, come down here and sit with us and watch three old dudes play some folk music about Star Wars, but they don't know what it's about.

[00:33:35] And then by the end of it, they get it, you know, and we, you know, We curate the songs and we curate the set and it builds up a certain way and there's, there's a rhythm to it. Um, you know, and, and by the end, you know, most people get it. They'll come up to us and say, hey, that was awesome. Now I understand.

[00:33:50] Now your costumes make sense. Now the music makes sense. This, this all makes sense now. It's starting to, the pieces are falling together, you know.

[00:33:59] JOSH: That's really incredible. and I'm sure that must feel very gratifying. I think you guys have, got some magic going on. I really, really do. I really think 

[00:34:10] huge fan, and I'm, I'm trying to, not, you know, fangirl out over here,

[00:34:18] FOLK THE EMPIRE: Well, this is your show, you can do whatever you want. You can do 

[00:34:32] JOSH: it down so it makes some kind of sense. 

[00:34:36] we've been dancing around this, but it, it seems like our views about the political situation are somewhat aligned, and I'm wondering, I'm wondering if anyone who maybe, voted for that guy has listened to your music and is into it.

[00:34:55] FOLK THE EMPIRE: Ahem. I would say yes. Yeah, I'm sure, I'm sure it has to have happened. Yeah. Um, but we're, I'm writing first and foremost for fans of Star Wars. Um, you know, I love folk music. I would be playing folk music if it wasn't Thank you. I'd still be writing folk music if it wasn't for this project.

[00:35:20] Um, but so much of folk music is about pushing back, and so much of it is about speaking a truth. And, for me, that truth is fairness, equality, justice, uh, peace, love, all that stuff. And, I, I grew up My dad was a pastor. Uh, he was a very liberal Lutheran pastor. I grew up in the church. And, his big thing was always, welcome.

[00:35:51] And, that was it. That was his religious doctrine. Was welcome. And, that's kind of my doctrine going into this. If you I don't want to sit down and listen to our music and enjoy it, I just ask that people don't co opt it and turn it into something it isn't. I'm writing rebel music. I'm writing music that is a pushback, but it's a celebration of also the fun side of Star Wars.

[00:36:20] We have a song, one of my favorite songs is Jackie, um, which is set to a Ramones tune. And Like, I have feelings about the Acolyte. People had feelings about the Acolyte. They're probably not the same feelings, but Jackie was a standout character and worthy of celebrating, and I got so excited by her character that I had to write about her.

[00:36:42] Um, and that's, Kind of ultimately what I, what I like, I, the people we talk to about Star Wars are celebrants. Um, you know, we may not, and I don't think it's required that you love everything. you know, you and I, Josh, probably don't love all the same parts of every Star Wars, you know, and for me, I celebrate the stuff in Star Wars that I feel most passionately about.

[00:37:07] Um, and I'm lucky because I, you know, I've got two guys with me who feel either indifferent or very much the same way. Uh, you know, I know that we're not all on the same level of fandom. You're more of a casual fan, Chris. You're calling me out. I am! I am! You filthy casual. Chris can't name all the planets alphabetically.

[00:37:33] Here's the thing, I would be considered a casual fan compared to someone who listens and thinks about it 24 7, and writes songs about it, and has 17 new songs every time we practice. So yes, I'll be casual compared to that. How about you, Mike? I'm right in the middle. Yeah, there's, there's, there's, there's Star Wars I love, there's Star Wars I don't love, um, but I think what's great about this and is, is the era where our characters exist is my favorite era of Star Wars, so I think that, you know, as far as me buying into this project, I mean, it's so easy to fall into this, you know, because it's, it's, it's so It's the most, it's the grittiest, it's the most realistic, um, you know, time, era, whatever verbiage you want to use in, in the Star Wars timeline in that universe, you know, so it's, it's much more rooted, uh, much more.

[00:38:30] Yeah, I like that. I like the grittiness of it. Yeah, that's, it feels the most lived in. Um, yeah. And. I think that, you know, we spend most of our practices just goofing around and, and, and laughing and, and trying to make music that we want to listen to. Um, and I think that that really helps, is that we have our messages.

[00:38:52] And so if, if you don't believe with us, politically, if you're not in the same camp. I hope you still, I hope you find something in the music that you enjoy. I would say at the end of the day, the enjoyable part of it is that, um, the, the Star Wars parts of the songs, um, are the, the beginning at entry level.

[00:39:10] And if you want to go deeper than that, there's a lot. Deeper than that to go, but even just at the surface level of fun Star Wars fight songs, it's, it's own thing is, is, it's enough. And if you really want to go deep, there's quotes from Repo Man, there's quotes from The Clash, uh, you can spend a li I sweat blood over these lyrics.

[00:39:33] That was my chance to talk about it. He's not lying. Um, you know, I really try to, to layer them. I'm one of those people who loves deep cuts. I love digging and, um, just it. Playing with little allusions and references. In my mind, I think everybody gets them, but I actually think it's better that people don't.

[00:39:56] Um, you know, I, I, I love the idea of somebody listening to this after a year and going, Hey, did he just say do a crime? That's from Repo Man. Why is he quoting Repo Man? Um, I wear the things that I love very proudly on my sleeves and I want to honor. The people who I'm stealing from, you know, Alex Cox, George Lucas, um, all the directors for Andor and stuff like that.

[00:40:21] Like, I think that that's some great writing. I mean, getting back to Andor, one of the songs that's been giving me the biggest problems, I've been trying to write a Marva song for years. The past year, um, because there's just so much in her final speech and all of it falls short of the reality of what she's saying.

[00:40:43] Um, and so that's kind of my, my bullseye. If I can get a song that sort of sums up what she's saying, then I feel like I've done what I needed to do. Um, but I do want to celebrate the weirdness. I do want to celebrate, you know, cryat dragons and Hutts and Ewoks, like fricking A. Ewoks are ridiculous, but I remember being like 10 years old in the theater watching Ewoks going, this is a thing that we're getting.

[00:41:11] And now they're one of my most favorite things on the planet. I don't know why. I love the idea of these sort of, um, I don't know. Did you read the Certain Point of View books by any chance?

[00:41:24] FOLK THE EMPIRE: You know, the, uh, Xenobiologist view of Ewoks and the stuff that was on Hoth with the Tauntauns and the Wampa, that to me is like, I love that shit.

[00:41:35] I think that's, I could read that stuff all day long. I love it.

[00:41:38] JOSH: so first of all, uh, thank you for very organically answering a question that, that in my list here was supposed to be my first question, um, about, uh, uh, your various Star Wars fandoms, uh, levels of fandom. Such as they are. And I do have to say, I think the balance you have is actually very good. Like, I think if you were all, you know, if you were all 24 7 Star Wars fans, then you might not have that, um, The perspective to be like, wait a second, we also want to make music that people like, right?

[00:42:25] FOLK THE EMPIRE: Seriously, that's why Mike was brought in.

[00:42:30] FOLK THE EMPIRE: yeah, Mike and I had been searching, I think we said it before, for years for a project. Um, we had tried doing podcasts together. We had tried, uh, making comics together, trying to do a whole bunch of things. And I have always been fortunate that the friends I choose to surround myself with are creative people.

[00:42:50] Um, and one thing I love about creative people is when one project doesn't work out, or if it doesn't click, you just move on. You're like, okay, this isn't working. So you ended up doing a podcast for a few years with some friends of yours as a result. Right. Um, and So like, when I went to Chris, uh, when I went to Mike originally, it was like, I know I can rely on you.

[00:43:14] I know where you are mentally. And it was the same thing with Chris with guitar. It was like, I know what to expect from your performances. I know what to expect with your attitude. I know what to expect with how much you're going to clown around versus how much you're going to take it seriously. Yeah.

[00:43:32] And, To me, on all three levels, all people who can have a good laugh. I mean, it's, look, it's a space show about laser swords and people in Halloween masks. But there's something so compelling and something so wonderful and something so beautiful and wholesome in Star Wars that it was a chance for me to celebrate it.

[00:43:53] And I've been a lifelong fan, quite literally. My dad took me in 77 to go see it. Um. We went to every opening until he died. Uh, and so for me, it's a chance for me to rekindle that sort of nostalgia, that old feelings, that family, that, that love of the galactic and, and, and the special and the wonderful and the beautiful and the astonishing, if you will.

[00:44:19] But also, the love of the galactic and the special and the wonderful and the astonishing, if you will. To make music with friends and to work through a lot of what we're all experiencing at arm's length. Um, you know, I don't have the guts to be a Johnny Rotten. I don't have the guts to be a Joe Strummer, but I sure as hell have the guts to be a Kyer Hammerlund and sit up there with a banjo and And talk about what's bothering me in this metaphorical, allegorical way.

[00:44:52] Um, and that, that to me is what it's all about. And the fact that we spend more than half our time laughing, although we were trying to be very serious for this podcast, because we listen to a lot of your other stuff, Josh, and we're like, he's always so learned and so like, it's, it's really great stuff.

[00:45:08] Yeah. We can't get up here and tell fart jokes like we usually do.

[00:45:14] JOSH: Well, I really appreciate that. But I like to think that, I have a leg in, in, Both worlds. I'm not, I'm not above a good fart joke.

[00:45:22] FOLK THE EMPIRE: Okay, good. Yeah, then, then Mike, go for it. I 

[00:45:26] JOSH: Let it rip. Let it rip. 

[00:45:27] FOLK THE EMPIRE: in me. I don't have it in me.

[00:45:30] JOSH: But you know, you said something, um, Eric, you said, um, it was important to you to be welcoming, or that's, you know, something that was instilled in you.

[00:45:40] And in, like, the Star Wars context, it was clear to me that, you know, your attitude is that, yeah, like, there's Star Wars I connect with more than other Star Wars, but 

[00:45:51] FOLK THE EMPIRE: yeah.

[00:45:58] JOSH: I think that's sort of, you know, Snobbery or, gatekeeping or whatever you want to call it is like kind of antithetical to the whole thing.

[00:46:06] So, so when, that song, Rebel Scum, what you said was the first song that you wrote? Uh, just a very subtle thing, but, you know, the lyrics from Rix Road to Coruscant, Kessel to Naboo, the Empire's got the numbers, but we hit what we shoot. Remember Alderaan, keep Jedha in your heart, the, bombad Imps can't stop us cause their Death Star done blowed up, like, you're referencing the Gungans next to Jedha, the origins of which are from movies, think you'll agree, with wildly different tones. So that showed me, it, letting me know that you're inclusive of all of it.

[00:46:43] And I love that you wrote a song about Jecki, because that was another thing, I was like, okay, he clearly loves what I love, but that's not the only thing he likes. Which I appreciate 

[00:46:56] FOLK THE EMPIRE: Well, thank you for that. Um, I, I grew up by the time I was like, in high school, most Star Wars was, was done, you know, it was a couple of the Timothy Zahn books and there were whispers and rumors of things, but Star Wars was pretty much over when I was a kid. And so me, everything is extra innings, all Star Wars is just bonus material and I'm so happy for it and I'm so glad for it. Good and bad, I think that nobody wants to be told that their favorite Star Wars sucks. And, you know, I tell this to my students all the time too, I'm like, none of you came to school today to be bullied. None of you came here today hoping, man, I hope someone singles me out and makes me feel like trash. And I, I think that's an important lesson in life, you know, go where you're, where, you know, Find your groups, find your people. And I think Star Wars people, I think the internet did a lot to divide Star Wars. I think early fan magazines, people shared negative opinions and stuff like that. But you had to search that stuff out.

[00:48:07] Now you look at a picture of Neil and There's like, you know, okay, well, Neil's bad because everybody loves Neil, but like, he's great. So you find something from the Acolyte and you get people bashing it on all levels, people loving it, people getting, it doesn't, I don't care. Um, I'm sorry for the people who who have to impose their Star Wars on everybody else.

[00:48:31] Um, I was a music snob. For most of my life, I would be the first one to tell you to name five songs. Uh, I've never Still have? I was just gonna say, we've just had a conversation. You just don't like your music. Um, no, but I, but I, you know, I teach high school. And, and for me Like, this is a long story and I'm sorry I'm going to cut it down, but like I had a young girl in one of my classes who loved when Justin Bieber was huge.

[00:48:58] She, her family situation was dire, they didn't have enough money, she got an extra school job, she worked her ass off, saved all her money, went to Justin Bieber, came back wearing Justin Bieber sweatshirt, hat, wristband. I mean, she had everything. She spent a fortune, and the kids were picking on her about it, and I'm watching it and thinking to myself, holy crap, this girl loves this performer so much that she went out And got an extra job so she could see them perform.

[00:49:27] So she could have two hours of happiness in an otherwise very complicated life. Who the hell am I to tell her she hasn't earned that two hours? Who the hell am I to say that that's wrong? And after that, it just sort of removed the scales from my eyes, if you would. and it became like, all right, well, you love Phantom Menace.

[00:49:51] Awesome. Terrific. Great. Yeah. And if I could just add to that, I mean, we have a group chat with everybody that's in the Burgundy Squadron. Um, and there's over 60 of us now. And, and we often talk about the, the biggest haters of Star Wars are Star Wars fans. They pick everything apart, everything apart. And what I like about the group that we're, that we're in is.

[00:50:17] Because our characters are those ragtag, background denizen characters, And they're all original characters. We're just living in our universe. Yes, we're in the Star Wars universe, but there's, there's nothing to nitpick. We're all in the same group, you know? So yeah, we're part of the Star Wars universe, but we, we love it for what it is.

[00:50:42] What's it all? Yeah. And, and, and take it or leave it good, bad, you know, whatever you think is great or terrible. point of this and this band and the Burgundy Squadron that we're in is just. Whatever you love about Star Wars is what you love. And everyone has a mutual respect. No one's there to pick anybody apart.

[00:51:03] You know, everyone's offering advice. Um, you know it's a very close knit community. And the people that come to see us, come to see us, I think, because it is so real and organic. They may not get it at first, but by the end, you know, we already talked about it, that You know, it makes sense. There's no, Oh, you guys are a bunch of Star Wars nerds playing some stupid folk music.

[00:51:24] It makes sense. You know, that sounded really practiced. I mean, I have to prepare myself for what people are going to say when we're done playing. So, so far, so far we've had pretty solid responses, even from, uh, absolute strangers, um, which has been really wonderful. So, you know, the fact that you're, you're making these connections, um, and What we've been attempting to do is a huge honor.

[00:51:49] Um, it means to us that what we're, what we're trying for is, is landing, um, in some capacity. And, and so Josh, when you reached out a couple months ago, we started talking. at first it was like, Wait, is he serious? Like, I'm like, I, you were mentioning, you know, you're saying all these really wonderful things.

[00:52:09] And I'm like, I, yeah, okay, I'm gonna go with this. He's being serious. And we started, you know, sharing some stuff back and forth. And I think that for me, you've put your finger on exactly what we're trying to do. It's, it's a really fine balance between being serious You know, AARP punks and celebrating, celebrating a movie that was originally designed just as box office entertainment.

[00:52:33] Um, but I think there's a lot of lessons that can be learned. And I think for me, Star Wars has always been about community. You know, when I was in college and Star Wars was the thing that you got yelled at or made fun of for enjoying before it's big, you know, resurgence. And what was that resurgent movie?

[00:52:51] Was it the Phantom Menace? It was the Phantom Menace. Um, 

[00:52:54] Speaker 2: I actually think it was maybe the Special Editions

[00:52:57] FOLK THE EMPIRE: Yeah,

[00:52:58] Speaker 2: and the time leading up to the Phantom Menace.

[00:53:01] FOLK THE EMPIRE: that was huge. Oh, back when the figures started coming back, I took dates to Toys R Us to look for toys. Oh my god, why did that memory 

[00:53:11] JOSH: you. A man after my own heart. Um, uh, no, in my, uh, parents house, which, every day that goes by, I'm amazed they haven't, threatened to, you But I have, the figures from that era.

[00:53:26] Um, it's all in boxes. yeah, like there was that moment, late 90s and the early 2000s, like, where there was that resurgence. and you know, like you were talking about the Zahn stuff and like the Dark Empire comics and kind of along with that, Grunge moment in the early 90s, there was something sort of grunge about, the Dark Empire. 

[00:53:47] FOLK THE EMPIRE: All those colors, the 

[00:53:49] real 

[00:53:49] JOSH: yeah, yeah, and it was like a little like, um, like brooding, and it was like, I think that was the moment where Star Wars started to work its way into pop culture, slowly but surely, but in a way that like resonated

[00:54:03] for 

[00:54:03] the time. 

[00:54:04] FOLK THE EMPIRE: would even say, for me, when I noticed it coming back, like when I first felt like, holy shit, all those years of nerddom are finally paying off, was Clerks. Um, when they're having the discussion about the Death Star and the freelance workers, and I was like, oh my god, wait. 

[00:54:22] JOSH: someone 

[00:54:23] FOLK THE EMPIRE: who talk about this in public.

[00:54:24] Uh, you know, uh,

[00:54:27] JOSH: Yes.

[00:54:27] FOLK THE EMPIRE: you know, you grow up listening to The Clash, or The Sex Pistols, or Black Flag, or Circle Jerks, or Descendants, and you wear sort of the armor of that, the skunk stripes, and it's said like, okay, here I am, but, you know, I also maybe have an edge, even though I'm just as scared shitless as you are.

[00:54:45] Um, but nerddom was, you know, Like, you show up to a party in a Wolverine shirt and suddenly everyone's like, what the hell? Like, you're not scarier? And so that Clerks moment for me was huge. Um, the power of the Force figures though, when Luke was all jacked.

[00:55:03] JOSH: yeah, the physiques were a little off. Yeah.

[00:55:05] FOLK THE EMPIRE: Yeah, 

[00:55:07] JOSH: Yeah. 

[00:55:08] FOLK THE EMPIRE: unsettling. I mean, Leia had done, Leia had done a lot of reps.

[00:55:12] It was the 90s. She was, yeah. Um. Bench pressing for sure. But I can remember the excitement of Running to like, you know, Kmart when Allentown was where I went and I'd be like, holy shit, this is like a, you know, I got the trooper figure and I run back or, you know, Leia in disguise. One of my fondest memories as a kid was going to Chicago to visit my aunt, who I never saw.

[00:55:36] And she was like, what do you want to do? And I was like, I want to go to Sears because I want to see if you have different Star Wars figures than I have in Rhode Island. Yeah. So, but

[00:55:47] JOSH: you're that much of a casual. Chris?

[00:55:51] FOLK THE EMPIRE: I mean, I don't read anything. Comparison. I haven't read anything. I watch the movies and the shows. That's where I, and I have, and my toys were when I was a kid. Everything I do is research. Um, it's all tax deductible.

[00:56:05] JOSH: Um, Yeah, and then obviously, we all thought that, I mean, in 99 and the early 2000s, you know, Star Wars, uh, transformed itself into something that I, it, there was stuff there that I liked, but I sorta didn't really have that connection that I had to the original stuff when I was a kid, 2005, I thought Star Wars was over, so I was like, okay, maybe this is something that is It's in my past. And then, Star Wars obviously returned, and um, Like, some of my favorite Star Wars stories have come recently, and, I just think it's really incredible, but, I'm gonna try to tie this up very succinctly, which is not my strong suit.

[00:56:48] Um, you know, you said something about the DIY and the handcrafted stuff. And, grittiness. And, something that made Star Wars special was, like, the scarcity of it. It's like, you know, we had these three movies, and then we had, you know, there started to be some more comics and some novels every few months, and it was like, okay, cool.

[00:57:09] Uh, but, like, you really, um, you, like, really wanted it, and you were yearning for it and waiting for it. And I think in the world now, we have just so much of Everything. that I think there is kind of a, need or a want to return to some of the, the older, slower, more handcrafted, even if it's not perfect, but the handcrafted nature and the scarcity of it is what's attractive. and your music and all the amazing stuff around it, the um, know, the storytelling. the care that you obviously, like I love this handcrafted zine, nature of the songbook. And just everything that you guys have put out, it's very clear that a lot of care and craft went into it. And that speaks to a need that I have in this, you know, year of our lord 2025, when like, we have new Star Wars, so much new Star Wars, so much new everything, coming at you all the time, and I think that there's something about Really, really cool and really special on top of how good the music is about that handmade authenticity that I think infuses all the stuff that you do. And that's really cool.

[00:58:33] FOLK THE EMPIRE: Thank you. Um, I would love to say it was a totally conscious thing. I'd be like, oh yeah, but it just felt, it feels right the way we are crafting everything. Um, I think all three of us believe that if you want to do something, one of the best ways to get it done is to make it yourself.

[00:58:51] And, the stuff that's worth having, you know, the friendships, the relationships, their struggles, you know, there, there's nothing in this life that is appreciated if it comes super easy, I think. And I think that, you know, working to make music, working to hang out with your friends, making time, letting people know that they're important.

[00:59:12] I never thought that those would be revolutionary acts. Um, and it feels more and more like it is. And, and I think, I don't know, for me at least, it's, it's worth putting in the time because what I'm getting out of it, what we're getting out of it, and this is getting really sappy, I'm sorry guys, is that it's, it's, it's worth it.

[00:59:32] all the care of something that we love, you know, I mean, Lucas, the reason Star Wars is better than 98 percent of other science fantasy stuff that came out is the time and effort, the seriousness and the ridiculousness. I mean, you have a scene in Return of the Jedi. Where they're bartering for a man's life, and we get time for a lounge act.

[00:59:55] You know, it's like, let's take a break and listen to this Muppet sing for a few minutes, and then we'll get back to saving a human being. Um, and I think Lucas set up some of that, you know, um, A New Hope is, is full of snide, remarks and humorous little beats and breaks, but it's really about overthrowing space Nazis, and that's huge.

[01:00:19] You've got to keep your humanity. You've got to keep the bits of life that are enjoyable and the things that are fun, and you know, we're a rebel band, and that's exactly what we do, and that's how we fight. You know, I said it It takes a rebel band. It takes a rebel band to sing a rebel song. That's a new one that's coming out.

[01:00:38] Um, but we ended up, uh, you know, I, I go always back to John Lied and John Rotten. You know, I'm not good with violence, but I'm good with words and that's what I choose to fight with. I, I'm useless in a fist fight. I'll run faster than anybody. Mouthing off? Yeah, I can do that. And one thing now, and to go back to your, you know, your reference to media saturation, um, you know, I think what's happening now, and yeah, there's a lot of Star Wars, and to keep it Star Wars focused, and you know, around this, I think I, myself, am appreciating more of the more recent content, just knowing that, you know, The stuff that's being written and produced now is from folks that grew up with Star Wars.

[01:01:27] So it's not just Star Wars again. You know, it's Star Wars with, you know, not to say that back then it wasn't mature folks, but it was a new thing, right? They didn't know, quite know what they were, they knew what they were doing, but didn't quite know what was going to happen with Star Wars. Now, Star Wars is a big thing.

[01:01:45] Now you've got folks that have grown up with it and they're putting a modern spin on it. And it is more topical and it is more modern, as far as, you know, the topics that are, that are being discussed. And then for us to sort of be writing music that's sort of centered around that in the time that we're in with the style of music being folk, folk punk.

[01:02:09] It just, it makes it easier to just sit down and just. Play the music. It just sort of comes out, you know, and, and, you know, it's not a secret that Eric is certainly the one behind the lyrics, but what we try to do is, is keep it grounded, you know, and, and we will collaborate on the lyrics and make sure that it, it makes sense.

[01:02:31] There needs to be feeling behind it. It can't just be Star Wars all the time, Star Wars, Star Wars. There needs to be real life connections in there. Um, and I think. The show is also mirror that and we're, we're sort of going along with kind of where Star Wars is going right now, you know, it's a lot more mature, it's a lot darker, um, you know, and it makes you feel something other than, you know, bad guy bad, good guy beat bad guy.

[01:02:58] There's more to it, you know, similar to when you're talking about the layers and the lyrics. How deep do you want to go? you know, sort of tying everything together there. Yeah, I think that's very well put, you know, This started out as my project, but it is no longer my project. It's our project. And you know, Chris and I went away. beginning of October and, and worked on stuff for a weekend on a trip that we usually take and, you know, Mike and I'll get together and work on stuff and the two of them will talk about stuff and it's, I think it's really important that everyone feels like they own a third of the band, because, like, keeping it at that level.

[01:03:36] Keeps us serious, keeps us trained, but it also allows us to stray and to be goofy and to come back and say, okay, hear me out. This is a song about the showdown between Greedo and Han, and I'm not going to mention either of their names except in bad puns. So here we go. And going, okay, well, this one lands and this one doesn't, and And landing on something or Chris going, you guys, I have an awesome intro for this.

[01:04:01] And then he'll play something. It's like, all right, that's, that's your intro now. That's, that's how we want this. And it, it just works for us. I don't know how other people necessarily work. Um, I've worked the opposite way where I've been like, this is my show and it's never been as much fun.

[01:04:15] Right. 

[01:04:18] JOSH: Heh

[01:04:19] FOLK THE EMPIRE: Chris.

[01:04:19] JOSH: heh heh heh heh.

[01:04:22] FOLK THE EMPIRE: Agree with me, dammit.

[01:04:25] JOSH: there's, um, know, as someone who has had, some successful creative collaborations and some less successful creative collaborations, it's always, it's tricky, and you have to figure it out. It's a different, dynamic every time, but I think that you're exactly right. Like, you have to have that sense of ownership of, you you're part of it, to feel like it's, it's not just in service of someone else's vision.

[01:04:49] It's a, it's a collaboration, because, you know, in anything creative, and certainly music, you're, putting a piece of yourself out there. So if you're gonna do that. You gotta feel, invested in it, I think.

[01:05:02] FOLK THE EMPIRE: I, I think 100%. I mean, look, we're adult males, you know, like we're adult people. And to get up there in Star Wars clothes and to play Star Wars music takes a certain amount of, I don't know. I think balls is the word. Takes a certain amount of, um, you need, you know, we're doing this to make noise. We're doing this because this is what we want to do.

[01:05:28] And I think people. either respond really well to that or don't know what to make of it. Um, but, you know, we, we've been very fortunate, you know, we've, we've been really fortunate early out to connect with people on a level that they're, they're aware of what we're doing. They know that we take, we take, Our lack of seriousness, seriously.

[01:05:50] Um, and we've been really fortunate to have some really great support. Um, you know, most of the naysayers don't know what to say because they're just like, well, it's weird. And you're like, oh, all right. I grew up my being called weird. That's nothing new to me. So, okay. I'm sorry. You know,

[01:06:12] JOSH: Yeah, you know, um, Mike, you said something about how, people making Star Wars now grew up with Star Wars. And, you know, when you were talking about the acolyte and the weird response, really made me feel like I was taking crazy pills or something, because like the, the, the level of hatred in certain corners of the internet from Star Wars fans for this show, compared to the show that I saw, I'm like, what, is going on here, because so many ways, Star Wars fandom is, is kind of a front in, like, the culture wars, because there are very similar, Dynamics at play to what I'm seeing in like, political, discourse in, you know, our country, certainly, and the world also, to what I'm seeing, you know, in, Star Wars fandom.

[01:07:07] And it's like, it's quite strange And, you know, and on that note, like, I liked the Acolyte, I thought it was great, I didn't love it as much as I love some other things, but I was like, oh, like, there's a lot to chew on in here, like, there's a lot of really good stuff in here, and I really want to see where it goes.

[01:07:21] So you've got me, I want to see more. Unfortunately, that won't be happening, uh, but, The creator, Leslie, I want to say her name correctly, Hedlund, I'm not sure how you say it, but, you know, knowing that she was a genuine fan, and had grown up with this, and had a love of this world and these ideas, like just knowing That someone

[01:07:45] is making their Star Wars and it's coming from a genuine place, and it's like, hey, I have a take on this, and I believe in this, and I am putting myself in this, I can't imagine hating that, no matter what it was.

[01:08:00] FOLK THE EMPIRE: Yeah, I

[01:08:01] JOSH: I really don't get it.

[01:08:03] FOLK THE EMPIRE: I think a lot of fandoms, you know, eventually are a bus and eat their own tail. 

[01:08:08] Marvel fans, um, you know, back in like the post Claremont burn days in the nineties started devouring themselves Trek fans with the Kirk versus Picard fight. Um, but I think you're right.

[01:08:22] There's no. I'm trying to say this nicely, there's no sort of rabid assault like a Star Wars fan. And I honestly think, I think that, you know, Acolyte had a lot to say. I think it was very clear with what it wanted to say. And I think there were people who were uncomfortable with some of those messages. Um, you know, for me, it didn't hit every mark, but who am I to think that TV has to be made for me?

[01:08:52] Uh, if I want something made, You know, that's why fan fiction exists. Go write the stuff that you want to do. Right? Okay, you're, you want more music in the Star Wars universe? Go make more music in the Star Wars universe. Um, it's a sandbox and I think it was designed that way. Luke, there was a period where Lucas had that kind of view of playing it, have fun, uh, enjoy the universe, enjoy the galaxy. And I, I, I would rather devote my time and energy to celebrating the people who can have fun and who can enjoy it. Um, you know, we talked about Burgundy Squadron earlier. I spend a lot of time talking to people who make costumes and, you know, Who are making credits or sabacc decks and, and stuff that has no real marketability in the real world, but they're doing it because they love it.

[01:09:52] They're doing it because that's the part of Star Wars that they're going to engulf themselves in. And the other stuff, once you start doing that. Doesn't matter as much, you know, I, I'm not a fan ultimately of the prequels as much as I like everything else, but I just don't worry about that stuff, you know, and I can appreciate it and I can say, okay, it exists and it's part of the lore and it's part of the legacy and I get it. But if I'm going to sit down, and, and this will cause, I think, some problems, I'll watch Solo. I think Solo is my idea of a perfectly weird, wonderful Star Wars movie. you've got robot rebellions, you've got sentient droids, right, fighting back. You've got slave mines, you've got all this stuff, but at the same time, you've got this cocky brat flying around the galaxy.

[01:10:45] Trying to get the attention of a girl. It's, I think it's just wonderful and weird and beautiful.

[01:10:51] JOSH: I think Solo's pretty great,

[01:10:53] frankly. 

[01:10:54] FOLK THE EMPIRE: think ultimately, it's the problem with the internet nowadays is people's poor too much emotion and energy into complaining about things they don't like. And, and there's a, it just becomes an echo chamber. But if you keep yourself out of that mindset and surround yourself with folks, and I'm going to get sappy here for a second.

[01:11:19] If you surround yourself with folks in a community that have nothing but positive things to, to say, Because what they're doing is what you're doing, even though it may be a different medium. We're doing the music thing, and we do have costumes. And like Eric said, there's other folks within our community doing other things that really don't have a real life application.

[01:11:41] We dress in costumes and play folk music and sing about Star Wars. We fill a niche that is for somebody. You know, if someone wants to focus their negativity towards us, I mean, I don't know what your problem is, but go, go 

[01:11:55] Speaker 2: It's not your 

[01:11:56] FOLK THE EMPIRE: to enjoy. Yeah, I'm going to keep doing what we're going to keep doing what we do.

[01:12:01] And like I said, we've been, as soon as someone says it sucks, I'm out. Thank God for how long? Does it matter who says you suck? Yeah. Wow. I

[01:12:16] JOSH: and you can answer this, all three of you, as either the real you and the real world are from perspective of your persona within the Star Wars universe, um, but if you could play any show at any venue, what's the venue, what's the lineup?

[01:12:33] FOLK THE EMPIRE: don't know. So the problem is we've always. We've just had a discussion trying to figure out where we just fit in in general. Where we belong. Yeah, like, I don't know, it's so hard to say because anytime we're put onto a bill, there's no other band that's like us and I'm not trying to say like, oh, we're the best, you know, no one, no band is, there's, we, there's other Star Wars bands, but.

[01:12:58] They're all electric, they're metal, they're, they're this, they're that. Um, so we end up on a folk bill that we played. Yeah. Um, which was our strangest gig, believe it or not. Yeah, which, yeah, it was super weird. So it's a room full of people who had no idea what the hell to do with us. So we play folk music, but the other folk bands are super serious.

[01:13:21] But then we end up at another show with. other Star Wars related acts, but they're all metal and wear folk. So it's, I don't know, I don't even know where we would fit in, to be perfectly honest. I, I honestly, uh, so, so Kyre would answer, I would love to play with like, Redline, or Max Rebo, or Dead Rebels, or any of the, the classic sort of in universe bands.

[01:13:48] Me, I would love, I, I, I love a basement show. I love, we play this metal record store called Doomed Records, uh, a couple times a year. And those are some of our favorite, those are some of my favorite shows because, you know, It's 20, 30 people, which to many, you know, to any real band doesn't sound like a lot, but these aren't, this is awful.

[01:14:14] They're not our friends showing up. Like our wives stopped coming. Um, right. And so, you know, they went to the first couple of shows. They were like, okay, we've heard what you, you know, we hear you practice. We know what you've got. Um, and so those are my favorite shows. I would love, Honest to God, I would love to do a tour of like comic book stores or cons.

[01:14:36] Um, I would love to do comic book stores. I would love to do a bunch of comic book shops. Um, I think that would be to me, ultimate. How about you? Um, I don't know. I was thinking this like whole, like, would you play with Joe Strummer? Oh, well, yeah. Like at ABC New Rio in 1982 or whatever. Um, no, I think I'm, I'm with Kyra on this one.

[01:14:55] I think going to a tour of a combination of indie record stores and indie comic shops. Um, would be fantastic. Yeah. And who do we play with? Whoever they brought. I don't care. Yeah. The weirder, the better. Could just be us and our, and our fans. 

[01:15:13] JOSH: well that's very, very cool. Um, if you guys are ever in Los Angeles, there's a Star Wars themed, bar here, it's called, Scum and Villainy,

[01:15:23] FOLK THE EMPIRE: We follow them on Instagram. Yeah.

[01:15:25] JOSH: Oh, yeah, yeah. So, so, um, you should definitely try to play a show, there. And also if you need a place to stay, I would love to help facilitate whatever, whatever you need, basically.

[01:15:38] FOLK THE EMPIRE: outside. Do you have like a alleyway or something like that? Maybe not too raccoon infested? If that's, you know, if we're not putting you out. If it's a nice raccoon. Yeah, are they friendly? Where do they stand?

[01:15:51] JOSH: No, but seriously, there was a show that you posted about on social media not that long ago. And I was kind of like, damn, how much is How much is a flight out there for the weekend if I could just go? 

[01:16:04] Any closing thoughts? Anything that you wanted to say that you didn't say, or?

[01:16:09] FOLK THE EMPIRE: Um, you know, we have an EP hopefully coming out in March. we're doing a, you wanna talk about it? Okay, go for it. So, six songs, five and a bonus. I was gonna say I thought it was five songs. Five songs and a bonus. Secret track. Yeah. Um, we're doing a cassette release, uh, rather than 

[01:16:30] vinyl. You know, taking it all the way back, a buddy of mine is named Rufus Daigleau, and he's drawn for Tank Girl and Judge Dredd and stuff like that, um, and he was going to do the cover art, but got behind in teaching some courses, so he put me in touch with a woman, from Portugal named, um, Allura Illustrates?

[01:16:50] Huh? Anna? Yeah. Anna Lauro. Anna Lauro. Anna Lauro, and the cover is I think the cover is better than our music. Um, yeah, it's amazing. It is a cover we don't deserve. Uh, it is absolutely stunning. I told her that we wanted something in the, in the scheme of a rebel girl. you know, a little bit of, punk, a little bit of rebel.

[01:17:11] And what she gave us is going to be fantastic. We'll have a cover reveal, probably more towards February, but the hope is the packaging dream, and we're, we're putting it together right now. It's not a dream, it's It's actually happening. It's coming to fruition. Is to make it like the Kenner action figures.

[01:17:27] So, the backing card with the cassette with a character goes, 

[01:17:32] So, 

[01:17:33] JOSH: that, 

[01:17:33] FOLK THE EMPIRE: sure you get a copy.

[01:17:35] JOSH: you know, that, Vince McMahon, meme.

[01:17:38] FOLK THE EMPIRE: yeah, with the multiple frames where he just, you know, about the end he's, yeah, falling. Well 

[01:17:44] JOSH: I was that, uh, I was that, meme. Um,

[01:17:48] FOLK THE EMPIRE: that's, that's our hope, that's our goal.

[01:17:51] JOSH: that is super exciting. Um, someone who's listening to this, If they're still here, I assume they may have some curiosity or some interest in, uh, checking you guys out. So, any recommendations for what song to listen to first and 

[01:18:05] how do people find you? 

[01:18:08] FOLK THE EMPIRE: don't go to Bandcamp. Um, if you want to order the, if you want to order the, any of the zines stuff, by all means go to Bandcamp. But the track that's on Bandcamp was when I was just a solo thing. Um, favorite, easiest thing to do is just to go to folk underscore the underscore empire, on Instagram. Uh, everything is located through there.

[01:18:27] We're connected. All three of us are connected through that with our own accounts. Um, that's the easiest place to go. Uh, YouTube is also pretty decent to see some of the live stuff we've recorded. Um, but I think we're gonna give you a track. And I don't know if we decided what track we want to give. Is it Did you know?

[01:18:45] I would think the first song to listen to personally is either Rebel Scum or FOLK THE EMPIRE. Yeah. Yeah? Yeah. We'll send one of those over. I would say Rise Up. You just don't want us to be part of it. That's a song where it's mostly just me. Um Yeah, no, I, I would say FOLK THE EMPIRE is probably the most enjoyable.

[01:19:05] You know, we ask for a lot of crowd participation and that is one that everyone kind of gets behind by the last verse. So, uh, I would start there. Rebel Skelmer, FOLK THE EMPIRE. Agreed. I don't have anything more to add to that.

[01:19:20] Thank you so much. This has been a really great time, and I'm sorry you have to edit all this.

[01:19:28] JOSH: It's alright. It's what I do. That's what I

[01:19:29] FOLK THE EMPIRE: The guys originally were like, how long? And I'm like, I don't know, 40 minutes? So if you are still listening in the audience, you are a trooper, and we really You know, we thank you. Josh, obviously, um, getting in touch with you and chatting with you and talking with you has been huge. We really enjoy it.

[01:19:47] So, uh, thank you for your support. We really appreciate it.

[01:19:50] JOSH: I'm just a real big fan, and you know, thank you for your time. I could talk to you about, I have like a whole other set of questions, but um,

[01:19:59] FOLK THE EMPIRE: We can finish out the year, you know, in December, we'll pick back up. Yeah. Alright. Oh, 

[01:20:04] JOSH: that. Uh, yeah, and we also have to talk about Season 2 of Andor, so, so we'll have more, I'm sure that will give you more grist for the mill in terms of songwriting and stuff. Um, yeah, I'm really, I'm really psyched, but, um, yeah, thank you for, participating in this, um, this new season of Trash Compactor is sort of thematically about, rebellion and fascism and maintaining your humanity.

[01:20:31] N particular reason, uh,

[01:20:34] FOLK THE EMPIRE: No particular reason. That's all we've got is our humanity. That's all we've got. 

[01:20:40] JOSH: I really love what you guys do and I really appreciate how generous you guys are with your time. And I have to say, having now interacted with you guys in person, uh, you exceeded my expectations. I think. I think all three of you are just wonderful, wonderful people, and I hope to see you guys live someday.

[01:20:56] FOLK THE EMPIRE: we hope we, if you ever do decide to buy a, to buy a plane ticket and come out east, you have a place to stay with me. Yep.

[01:21:02] JOSH: I'll be out that way at some point, and maybe I can make a detour in, uh, Rhode Island, but, um, uh, thanks very much, and, whatever song you're going to send me, listeners, enjoy as FOLK THE EMPIRE plays us out.