Western Kaiju Smash-Up: BOOK OF BOBA FETT Episode 7 (Finale)

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JOSH
Welcome to Trash Compactor, a podcast where we throw out our opinions about Star Wars. My name is Josh and we got a big heap of trash today comprised of James.

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JAMES
Hello.

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JOSH
Jon.

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JON
Hello.

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JOSH
Mickey.

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MICKEY
Hey.

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JOSH
Murray.

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MURRAY
Oh hello.

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JOSH
Every time. And Russ.

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RUSS
Hi.

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JOSH
Wasn't The Great Heap a Droids, the cartoon Droids in the eighties, like the feature special, like the pilot episode?

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JON
They had a feature special?

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JOSH
Yeah, like the pilot episode of Droids I think was like an hour long, and I think it was called The Great Heap.

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JON
I had a toy from one from that cartoon, but I barely remember it. Or maybe it was the Ewok cartoon. It was some dude with like pink or purple hair.

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JOSH
Can somebody check Wookieepedia?

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MURRAY
The Great Heap was the Star Wars Charlie Brown crossover, right? Low hanging fruit. And I'll grab it every time, baby.

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JOSH
OK, while no one is checking on that,

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MICKEY
Oh, I thought he was right.

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MURRAY
No, that was just my stunning sense of humor. The Great Heap, 1986, a one hour animated television movie that serves as a prequel to the Mongo Babs --

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JON
Babs Cycle?

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MURRAY
Shut your mouth. Damn, you've really nailed that.

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JOSH
But Droids, right? it's from Droids?

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MURRAY
Yes.

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Speaker 2
Would you look at that. From the deep recesses, there's some shit that will live on in my brain forever.

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MURRAY
From the deep recesses of the urine bag that is your brain.

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JOSH
Yes. Great callback. Great callback.

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JOSH
OK anyway, let's get on with it, because today we're actually going to be talking to you about episode seven of the Book of Boba Fett, the season finale entitled In the Name of Honor. And let's start with overall impressions James overall impressions of In the Name of Honor, the season finale of Boba Fett.

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JAMES
Well, for a show that let's start out as a gangster and move gangster show and then went to The Mandalorian season three premiere and to the sequel Return of the Jedi, a western kaiju movie seems just about right to finish it off.

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JAMES
I mean, I can't I don't know how I feel about it, but I can't say I. I didn't like it because it had so many amazing things and things I thought I'd never see. I just I just don't know how I feel.

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JAMES
About the show as a whole, but this is like the seventh installment, so I haven't quite gotten my feelings about it, but I did not like it because like the show overall is going to be so many amazing things that I wanted to see.

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JAMES
And this episode, you know, it delivered. He said it. I want to ride that thing. And he did ride that thing.

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JAMES
He rode that rancor.

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JAMES
And it was amazing. And so, yeah, I like it. I just don't know how I overall feel about the show as a whole. I don't know if it gave me the closure or the answers of any of the stuff we've been talking about, but I did like it.

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JAMES
I mean, that's the that's the most I can I could say about it with. I'm still trying to digest it.

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JOSH
Much like the Sarlacc it will take a long time.

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MURRAY
Yeah, I was going to say it's going to take a thousand years.

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Speaker 3
Yeah, yeah.

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JOSH
My reactions are exactly the same as yours, almost. I think I think I feel exactly the same way. But Mickey, your overall thoughts?

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MICKEY
It's a TV show.

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MICKEY
I mean. It was awesome. It had some cool parts. Like I said, it's like a cool mismatch of things. It's kind of interesting 'cause I actually think I like this episode, you know, not not not my favorite, though season. I didn't think it was amazing TV, but I liked it.

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MICKEY
But yet somehow it made me look back on the rest and just kind of like, just look on the season two and be like, there's content. Disney gave us content, but I don't have any you. I mean, like, it's kind of it's kind of weird.

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MICKEY
I guess I would kind of like as both good as an episode, but kind of made me rethink the whole series, which I was trying to give a little bit more leeway to and just. And again, I don't hate the series.

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MICKEY
It was just to me. It's just like, we're just at a point, you know, peak TV where they're just like, they're just making a lot of stuff. And I will say again, that brings up the whole point of the whole season.

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MICKEY
It doesn't piss me off like a Marvel show, so I'll give it credit for that. It was it was fun. I enjoyed it.

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JOSH
Murray overall thoughts?

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MURRAY
Well, there's a few quick preambles to my thoughts. one, I don't think there was a person watching anywhere in the world that, like when they felt like lackluster by the finale, was surprised that it was directed by Robert Rodriguez.

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MURRAY
Like.

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JOSH
I thought of you at the title card.

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MURRAY
I don't want to keep picking on the guy, but like I didn't know. And so it's like another part that was like, Fuck it there. There you go. But I do it like as a quick wrap up of the show as a whole, the the whole series.

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MURRAY
I think it's very funny and slightly embarrassing just how much credit we gave the show with all the places we thought it was going to go and were like, Oh, it didn't go anywhere, OK, it's just literally what you see is what you get like, that's fine.

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MURRAY
But the the final episode was. Good like question Mark, like it was like it was fine, they had some awesome moments, usually involving Mando. There was things that drove me crazy, like why is she explaining Boba Fett's plan out loud to him while the plans going on like or like the mod that does a complete 360 to

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MURRAY
shoot and ends up in the same position that he started in? But the main thing that, like I felt watching it is so it had all the cool features of it, but it reminded me of there's this episode of the show community where it's like a they're doing Goodfellas with like chicken tenders like, that's the whole thing

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MURRAY
. And so it's it's a straight up Goodfellas thing. They even have the leylah like parody. And then at the end, two characters are talking and the character that was doing the main abed that was doing the main parodies like, Oh, this is kind of like that an episode of Knight Rider and they're talking about it is like

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MURRAY
, why don't we just sit down and have some chicken Adobe? It's like, can we sit cross-legged on the table and eat it like 16 candles? And then the main character's like, just pick one reference Abed. And that's what I felt like when I was watching this, and I was like a Western.

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MURRAY
And then it was like Godzilla. And then I was just like, just pick one reference like Robert Rodriguez. So that's kind of what I felt like when it was just like too much, just going all over the place.

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MURRAY
And I was just like, OK, it's like, why do these people hate each other? We're just introduced for the first time and they're like, Oh, city slickers, all desert bums, like, where's this coming from? Like what? What is going on?

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MURRAY
Why are you introducing something with like ten minutes left in the episode? But so it was OK. I like that. It was fun. Some moments I loved. But overall, like. Meh.

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JOSH
You know, it's interesting. That's the second reference to the Western Godzilla movie hybrid and Star Wars is really pastiche. I mean, that's really what it is. It's really a genre mash ups. And now there's just something about the idea of like a western kaiju movie that you could only really get from Star Wars.

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MICKEY
It exists though..

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MURRAY
And yeah, yeah, and it's awesome.

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MICKEY
But I think, no, it's called The Valley of Gwangi something. There's a movie. Wait, what happened from like the sixties? Really, that's cowboys versus dinosaurs. Now, I wouldn't see this movie.

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JOSH
Well, that's cool. No, I've never heard of it.

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MURRAY
The Valley of Elah isn't that like Tommy Lee Jones hanging flags upside down or.

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MICKEY
Something like that? It's it's a similar name, but I get it. And I think Robert Rodriguez was like riffing on it, but anyway.

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JOSH
That's interesting.

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MURRAY
But the thing is, and it's cool, but like, I guess like for like the rancor scene, if you're going to go into it with as a as a western meets, you know, Godzilla, like, where's the the the like all the pretty horses like horse taming scene, like we just got half a conversation with Danny Trejo.

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MURRAY
It's like I would like to ride that one day, then then that's it. And that's like where they are saying, like, Oh, some people have been known to be able to ride them. Like, It's this thing that not everybody can do, not everybody that like it.

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MURRAY
What's it like when the first person that sees it like gets attached to it, like imprints on like? So that's like an established thing. But then it's also saying that not everybody can ride. It's all like, show us like him getting thrown off, show him like that, like you would in a western where they're trying to tame

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MURRAY
a horse like.

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JON
That and mando with those like hump back things that Nick Nolte teaches, Mando.

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RUSS
Mando did it.

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MURRAY
Yeah, yeah.

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JON
Mando did it.

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JOSH
Mando did it.

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JAMES
"Mando did it!"

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MURRAY
Everything that this show did, Mando did better.

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JAMES
Well, we watched Boba Fett learn to ride the rancor happened during Mando episode one of season three. That's what that's that's that's what was going on.

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JAMES
When he was learning and learning how to use the Darksaber. What was happening is Boba Fett was learning to ride a rancor.

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JOSH
Russ, I know that you're itchin' but I'm saving you for last because I want everyone to know. I want everyone to know. Russ texted me yesterday morning and was like, I think the next episode of Trash Compactor is going to be some of my finest work yet. So I'm saving you for last.

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RUSS
Don't build me up. Don't don't build it.

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JOSH
Before you take us wherever you're going to take us, I want to get everyone else's shit out of the way first.

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JOSH
So, Jon, overall thoughts on episode seven and or the entire season as a whole.

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JON
So like the show, I enjoyed it. I thought it was a lot of fun. I love the King Kong and Godzilla stuff. I love Mando and grow grew. When Gregory jumps in the Mentos arms, it's like my heart sank.

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JOSH
Yeah, no. But no, I teared up at that. Yeah, I really did. Like, like, it really affected me, and it just is like.

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JON
He's like, I miss you too, buddy.

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JOSH
Yeah. Oh my God.

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JON
But but that being said, though, this episode is like, it's like it's somebody like told you, like at a party like, Oh, what happens in episode seven is like, Oh, well, the bad guys show up and they have a shootout and he rides a train car.

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JON
And then they when you're like, Oh, OK, I will like to see that. But then the episode feels like the way somebody told it to you at the party. It's just like so perfunctory. You know? And like.

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JON
The thing about the the finale is like, given all that shit, I was kind of underwhelmed because the show told us exactly what it was going to do, and it did not deter from that at all.

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JON
There were no shocks. There were no surprises. Everything went as obviously as it was predictable and predictable way that was going to happen. And I was like, not even one like curveball. Like anything, no betrayal. No surprise. There was like, Nope, this is a by.

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JON
The numbers just kind of went and and it was a small trial like, Oh, I was going to say, we're going to say.

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MURRAY
No, I'm sorry. I forgot to put my hand. I was going to say even the betrayal doesn't lead to anything like, Oh yeah, all your Tusken raider friends. The Pikes killed them and like that would do anything. The why behind that, but was nothing.

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JON
But also like you can already infer that when you watch the show, because the already betray them was like, Well, I guess the pipes are behind that too. Like, it's like, it's like a like, why didn't Boba already infer that on his own?

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JON
And then I. But it was just like I saw online that apparently like they hint that some sort of relationship between Boba and Cad and I was like, they did. And it was like, I didn't get like any of that.

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JOSH
Well that was from The Clone Wars.

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JON
Yeah. But like in the episode, he was a.

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JAMES
It's a lost Clone Wars episode.

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JOSH
Oh, it's a lost Clone Wars episode.

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JAMES
There's an episode they were supposed to make in the sixth season didn't make it because that's when it got canceled before Disney Plus brought it back. But somehow that episode is canon, because enough people have seen the animatic online.

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JOSH
Right?

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JAMES
Yeah, it was an episode where they they have a duel, and that's how Boba Fett gets the dent in his helmet is from

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MURRAY
Oh shit.

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JOSH
Yeah, that's a deep cut.

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JAMES
Yeah.

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MURRAY
But like, I'm sick of Star Wars killing cool people.

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JON
I know they really should save their bad guys. But the point being is like, I enjoyed it. I was kind of underwhelmed, and I feel like the show has been at war with itself through the whole. Program, and I don't think the show knew what it wanted to be an.

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JON
I don't think the show knew what Boba Fett should be. Or at least they had an idea of what they thought Boba Fett should be, but they didn't know how they want to tell it. And like, so they were like, Let's just end it right now.

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JON
And then like, I'd seen kind of like, you know, like if you really took your time, like, have a season to like, stretch it out, like get deeper because it didn't seem that deep.

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MURRAY
His character arc is a straight line.

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JON
Murray to go with what Mary was saying about Robert Rodriguez. However, you want to feel about him, he has a very distinct way of presenting the show, which I would think is kind of like more like a matter of fact way.

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JON
And that's in conflict with literally half the show. I think he did. Like four episodes. It's like a seven episode show. So for you? Yeah. So it's like our three episodes. There you go. So and for the people, the fourth episode is done by other people, and those four episodes are so different from the Rodriguez episodes that

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JON
it's like, What type of show are you trying to tell here? You try to be more cinematically trying to be more TV ask. And it's just like, you know, it's like my intention and execution. And at the end I was like, I really don't have a consensus about what this thing is like.

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JON
So that's why I'm left off with the show. I liked it. I enjoyed it. But I enjoyed it strictly for the the heart and effort that the the people involved in the show put into the performances and the content itself is really fucking cool, you know, and some really cool art things.

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JON
But like I was like the last episode, I was like, All right, that's fine. Like, I'm not sure if I'm ever going to watch the show again. You know.

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JOSH
My my feeling about Robert Rodriguez is just real quick is that he's very good at certain things, but I feel like he's one of those directors where, because of the way he came up and the way he taught himself, like his approach to filmmaking is another his directorial style is kind of inseparable from his conception of the

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JOSH
content like it has to be his idea to match his directorial style. Does that make any sense?

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MURRAY
No, it does.

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JOSH
I mean, like another example is like a Kevin Smith to take an extreme example, like he wouldn't make a good Star Wars movie. He's even said, I think something to that effect. He he wouldn't make a good Star Wars movie.

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JOSH
His movies only work because the content are kind of married to his skills as a director. It's kind of in one package. And then when you separate them, I mean, obviously, Robert Rodriguez's is very good at certain things.

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JOSH
I thought they were a lot of moments. Even in this episode, there were a lot of like like individual moments that were really fucking cool, for sure. Yeah, yeah. But as a whole, how you put it, Jon, there's like a matter of factness or there's like a flatness.

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JOSH
I think when you said, like.

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JON
A perfunctory nature where it's like, here's a shootout shootout happen movie on, it's like you.

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JOSH
Like it because it's not his, it's not his idea. So he's he's using the skills he has to interpret someone else's material.

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MURRAY
But if there's something that he should know, it's like a shootout. Like, that's like the bulk of his movies. It's just like shoot outs.

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JON
It's funny because when you think about like if you go back and you watch Desperado, we brought up so many times, like the choreography in Desperado is kind of similar where it's like he's openly just like shooting people, not taking cover.

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JON
And it's just like. But the content is like, Look at this crazy look at El Mariachi with these Uzis taken down, this cartel like.

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MURRAY
There is like a coolness like to like. The shots still look cool, even though it's exactly what you're saying. I'm not talking about choreography. It's just like, Yeah, it just looks cool. Like the way he I don't know the there's something about the way it was like shot.

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JON
You're just like, I think that goes with what Josh was saying. Yeah, exactly. Idea's crazy. It's like, Look at this fuckin mariachi take on a drug cartel. Like, That's crazy or like from dusk till dawn. It's like motley crew of like a priest and his adopted kids, and he's like fucking jewel fees or bank fees go to

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JON
like a vampire bar called the Titty Twister. It's like, no matter what happens, it's going to be interesting just because of the concern, because of the idea. But then when you like, as as Josh is saying, when you get like the known Star Wars universe and Boba Fett, it's like it's not as crazy as that.

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JON
It's not.

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JOSH
As inspired.

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Speaker 3
He's not as not. Yeah, yeah, we go. He's drawing perfect.

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MURRAY
Yeah.

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JON
There's no gasoline on that is what he needs. I mean, some of that gasoline, the fire.

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JOSH
He's trying to apply what he knows his skills to do something justice rather than something that is, you know, coming from within.

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MURRAY
Him. Yeah.

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JOSH
Yeah, yeah. So Russ, I have kept you waiting for way too long. I apologize. But and I'm sorry if I have built you up too much. But what were your overall thoughts about the finale of Boba Fett?

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MURRAY
And he loved it?

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JOSH
Somehow, I don't think that's why this is going now.

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RUSS
I have a book of boba regrets.

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JON
Oh, wow.

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MURRAY
But up, up, up, up.

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RUSS
Hey, sorry, I saved that one, I figured I'd open with it.

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Speaker 3
Yeah, I mean, I wasn't expecting this to be good. I mean.

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RUSS
I I mean, I didn't want the show to exist. I and I hate watched the whole season. It's not the bob I wanted that being said, and we've talked about this, the but they gave us was still not good or interesting.

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RUSS
Milquetoast at best. No ideas of his own. Totally the least interesting character on the entire show. And it's his show. They should never have made the show about Boba Fett. Like, that's just the way it could've been. Anyone else should never been tattooing in tattooing fatigue.

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RUSS
Like, I really had nothing go the show and nothing going for it for me going into this episode. There were some rumors at Han Solo was going to show up and I thought, Oh, what the hell? Why not?

00;18;08;26 - 00;18;17;23
RUSS
Like, who cares? Like, do whatever. Throw, throw anything you want out it. Make it as interesting as you can, you know, have some fun, you know, take all the toys out of the toy box. Do whatever you want.

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RUSS
You already doing it? Yeah, I don't think it was good. I mean, just right off the bat there in the the ruins of the The Pirate Casino and there's no plan formed. I mean, Kevin McCallister made better plans for defending his home than Boba Fett.

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RUSS
Like.

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Speaker 3
I just yeah.

00;18;39;16 - 00;18;44;07
JON
Barricade or anything outside of booby traps are going to stand in the doorway. I guess we're.

00;18;44;07 - 00;18;45;12
Speaker 3
Going to die, God.

00;18;46;16 - 00;19;00;16
RUSS
So for me, for me, the biggest thing was like, if you want to play Boba Fett as more of a not as a pacifist, but as even keeled, as mature. Basically, it's the Dark Knight Returns rubric like Frank Miller's Dark Knight Returns 1986.

00;19;00;19 - 00;19;16;02
RUSS
Like all older guy heroes or villains, coming back to do their thing again roughly is kind of in that model. You know, Batman's old is coming back out of retirement to do it again, The Dark Knight Returns. That's like the original rubric for a lot of these kind of like hero stories.

00;19;16;21 - 00;19;29;20
RUSS
So that would have been the Boba. That's like the Boba Fett model. Yet he's not smarter. He's not more collected. He's not cooler, he's not more. He's he's not able to access his entire history of bounty hunting or mercenary work.

00;19;29;27 - 00;19;39;11
RUSS
So when they first had that assault and Jabba's palace and he just had no idea what he's doing, share his weapon list. The first thing Boba Fett would do is go get some weapons and go get a gun.

00;19;39;17 - 00;19;52;25
RUSS
Like Go, go, get some things like armor yourself up in the most minimal way you can. He didn't do anything. He didn't reset. So something happened to him and we couldn't figure it out. Whatever it is, possibly some sort of blunt force trauma.

00;19;53;00 - 00;20;12;12
RUSS
But basically, here he has none of it. He has none of his ability whatsoever, and he's totally acting like he doesn't even know where he is. Maybe an amnesia. Boba Fett would have been better, but we got like the Danny DeVito like jumpsuit out of the Sarlacc Pit, like Danny DeVito, Penguin Batman Returns crawling out and and

00;20;12;14 - 00;20;21;22
RUSS
then, like then he's dressed up in the robes kind of like the Uncle Fester, Boba Fett. And I just. And he kind of acts like Uncle Fester, like doesn't know where he is. Doesn't know what's going on. Everyone else is telling him what to do.

00;20;21;22 - 00;20;34;29
RUSS
The mods telling him that they should stay there. They should be in the city. It's like, actually, if you're going to do that, you need to fortify the area and have traps, booby traps, a base. You're going up against the giant force and you have you have no resources yet.

00;20;34;29 - 00;20;44;13
RUSS
He has all this treasure. Fennec Shand is like, Yeah, we have all this treasure. I'll go. I'll go get some people. She didn't kill she. She got Mando. She can get anyone like there's entire guild of bounty hunters.

00;20;44;13 - 00;20;59;20
RUSS
Like in this episode, I would've expected, like fallen Zacchaeus to show up Dinger boss. Like any of the classics, even IG 88, that would have been if those bounty hunters show up because they're in the guild. And it's like, Well, I know some people we can pay to do this work, this mercenary work for us, that's actually

00;20;59;25 - 00;21;13;08
RUSS
true. If the original the original Empire Strikes Back Bridge Bounty Hunter crew shows up in this episode. Like, like in Star Wars style, like a giant door opens up and it's a bunch of spoken and silhouettes and you're like, Holy crap, that's the Empire Strikes Back.

00;21;13;16 - 00;21;25;07
RUSS
You know, bridge by 900 crew and they just destroy everything. And then on top of that, we're slave one like a remote controlled slave, one coming in fire spray gunship. Whatever you want to call it could have came up and you. Just.

00;21;25;07 - 00;21;37;01
RUSS
Cleared everything. And then at the very end, bring the rancor for a snack like that's, you know, you could just eat all the bodies and you have a grand old time just dropping around. He clearly had the rancor nearby, so he had that's the only plan he had.

00;21;37;07 - 00;21;43;14
RUSS
Not good enough. Totally disappointed. Did not like the episode or the series.

00;21;43;26 - 00;21;47;28
JOSH
I mean, everything you said is totally fair. I I hear you on a lot of those points.

00;21;48;02 - 00;21;48;29
RUSS
It's OK to like it.

00;21;49;05 - 00;22;04;18
JOSH
I want to reiterate basically what James said. Like, I I mean, I thought it was dumb, stupid, fun. It did what it said on the box. Kind of something that Mickey was saying. I think a phenomenon we live with in this era of peak TV is that the audience is always ahead of the show.

00;22;04;19 - 00;22;25;20
JOSH
You know, basically whenever you do a TV show, you're kind of crowdsourcing a second draft, which is sort of tricky, especially with something that's as well-known and as beloved as Star Wars. Everyone has their own clear vision of what it should be versus something where I think the only way to really do a show, that's the.

00;22;25;23 - 00;22;40;17
JOSH
Cessful and or Star Wars Show that successful is to bring in someone that has a very specific point of view because otherwise what you end up with is is these these things that have scenes that are cool moments that are cool ideas that are cool.

00;22;40;21 - 00;22;45;16
JOSH
But at the end of the day, what does it really add up to? It's just sort of, like Mickey said, it's more content.

00;22;45;27 - 00;22;57;25
JON
Yes, I totally agree. It's just like you need a more specific point of view to what Russ was saying about the bounty hunters and showing up and stuff like that like that that made me think of an idea of like tactics.

00;22;57;25 - 00;23;11;29
JON
And while I was watching it, I was like, There's no plan here because I've when one like Fennec was like, OK, we got we got Cranston hanging out in like the south sector and we got the grammarian guards of the east suckers like.

00;23;12;17 - 00;23;13;12
JOSH
A grandstand.

00;23;13;26 - 00;23;16;29
JON
Or his name can't stand there. New Barca Black.

00;23;17;05 - 00;23;18;10
Speaker 3
first. Oh.

00;23;20;04 - 00;23;21;13
JON
Bryan Cranston.

00;23;22;26 - 00;23;24;00
JOSH
Black chrysanthemum.

00;23;24;10 - 00;23;25;06
JON
Cassandra.

00;23;25;13 - 00;23;25;29
Speaker 3
Hey, it's.

00;23;25;29 - 00;23;26;22
MURRAY
The Black Dahlia.

00;23;26;22 - 00;23;28;06
RUSS
That's what a bad name.

00;23;28;14 - 00;23;29;05
JON
Shaggy dog.

00;23;29;09 - 00;23;31;00
JOSH
They inherited that from the comics.

00;23;31;00 - 00;23;45;03
JON
So I have two points. We're going to say this really quickly. two things about the tactics is that one, they didn't have a plan. So like when you have like new Barca watching an entire city block by himself for like two grammarian, guards watching the entire fucking airport.

00;23;45;11 - 00;23;45;20
JON
And this.

00;23;45;20 - 00;23;46;22
Speaker 3
Is like, this isn't going to work.

00;23;46;22 - 00;23;58;25
JON
Guys, or like a bunch of teenagers on the rest of us doing like the entire north section. And then so when things start happening, I was like, Well, no shit. But then when they start happening, they weren't that. Bad.

00;23;59;06 - 00;24;13;23
JON
So when you have like five trend oceans with knives go after new Barca, who's got like a fucking bazooka and he's like ten feet tall. I was like, How are they going to win? And yet they do. Or like when you have like these guys going up against the marine guards and they're just kind of like poking

00;24;13;23 - 00;24;24;00
JON
at them. And it's like four dudes with sticks poking at them and they're like going up against the cliff. It's like guys just run left and right. Like, what's going on? Like what? How did how did you get to a cliff?

00;24;24;04 - 00;24;43;05
JON
Why are they slowly poking you out of it like and so things like that? Kind of bother me. But to my other point, something that really stuck to me, which is like, I think, where they really lost track of as to who Boba Fett was and why this show even exists is cad bane asks.

00;24;43;05 - 00;24;50;22
JON
And he's like, You know, the one thing I don't understand is, what's your angle? And I think it's like I thought of you guys. And he's like, These are my people.

00;24;51;03 - 00;24;52;26
Speaker 3
Fuck, no, they're not. It's like.

00;24;53;02 - 00;25;10;00
JON
It's like, it's like, no one, like somebody. I think it was on the verge and the person was him, Gartenberg. He's like, Fett declares while facing near-certain death with the unexpected commitment of a man who almost certainly does not know the name of a single person who lives in mass Esper.

00;25;10;15 - 00;25;22;03
JON
And I was just like, I was like, That's kind of true because as people, if anything, were the Tusken raiders and they're gone and it's like, you know, who's this? You know, who's people this might be this might be Cobb Vance people.

00;25;22;11 - 00;25;30;04
JON
But even then, they're not his people. It might be Luke Skywalker's people. But even then, they're not his people. So like, I didn't quite get that, you know?

00;25;30;05 - 00;25;48;15
JOSH
Well, here's what I will say about that particular moment and that declaration of his motivation. That's what I've been saying since episode two. He is for the common people, the downtrodden, the people who are stepped over. He is going to fight on behalf of the people who have no one to watch over them the way he was

00;25;48;15 - 00;25;53;07
JOSH
mistreated and had to fend for himself. That's what I've been thinking since the second episode.

00;25;53;07 - 00;25;53;26
JON
The networks.

00;25;54;08 - 00;25;55;00
JOSH
That it worked.

00;25;55;04 - 00;26;05;25
JON
But what I'm trying to say is like, if there was, I just didn't think like, I think it's kind of like the way I said before, where it's like somebody describes to you what the show is about, and that's the way they presented it to us.

00;26;05;26 - 00;26;11;13
JON
It's like the show, basically. It's like, it's like I'm a champion for the downtrodden. It's like, OK, he's a champion for the downtrodden, like.

00;26;12;10 - 00;26;17;08
JOSH
I'm not saying that's the most effective version of it, but I'm just saying that like that. I was like, See, yeah.

00;26;17;09 - 00;26;33;28
JON
Always seen as him hire people for business relations. And they were like, We're doing our job. And that was also the grand old plan of like them being totally fucked. Unless the people from Freetown show up to the people of Freetown was a pickup truck filled with good old boys.

00;26;34;05 - 00;26;35;23
JON
Like, that's not a plan.

00;26;36;10 - 00;26;40;20
Speaker 3
You know? Yeah, they're going up against like tanks and like.

00;26;40;29 - 00;26;50;19
JON
Like in the army, it's like, this isn't like, I don't understand. But I just wish they could have, like, planned the episode harder.

00;26;51;17 - 00;26;54;27
Speaker 3
Like plan at all. Yeah, it's like it was like it was.

00;26;54;27 - 00;26;57;00
MURRAY
Also was this it was Boba Fett's playing.

00;26;57;02 - 00;27;06;12
JON
To the I feel like if I'm going to finish this right now, but I just feel like the show and I enjoyed it because I thought the content was cool and they really gave it their all and what they had.

00;27;06;29 - 00;27;19;27
JON
I think the show was a concept that was filmed and it wasn't like fully fleshed out. It was just we just watched a concept for a show like the pitch. Well, that's not. I want to see like the real show, you know?

00;27;20;03 - 00;27;21;09
JOSH
You know, James.

00;27;21;19 - 00;27;38;13
JAMES
Just like, yeah, I mean, I guess like, I guess maybe. We read too much into what Amanda Laurean is like, we think of Magda Laurean supposed to be a tactician, I guess they're not like because even Mando would have said this is not a plan a, but he's not he's not ready to get other Mandalorians either.

00;27;38;13 - 00;27;54;17
JAMES
Or try to, I guess just Mandalorians don't like they're great warriors individually. They just don't are not tactical or mapping out battle plans, or at least in what we see in the show, like in terms of like the expanded universe and what they've talked about and in other stories properties, there could be more to it.

00;27;54;18 - 00;28;01;08
JAMES
I mean, The Mandalorian's and rebels were definitely plotting out, you know, and thinking, but not these two Mandalorians.

00;28;01;09 - 00;28;06;01
JON
Maybe that's why they got wiped out, because they can't fucking join up and have a strategy.

00;28;06;12 - 00;28;09;13
Speaker 3
We have armor. Yeah. Yeah, we have armor.

00;28;09;13 - 00;28;09;29
RUSS
Shoot us.

00;28;11;06 - 00;28;26;13
MURRAY
That's their mindset, right? Is their whole mindset is like that. Tony Stark like ready fire aim type mindset because they know that they have the armor and they can fight. So, you know, nine and a half times out of ten, they're going to be able to get out of any jam.

00;28;26;13 - 00;28;32;05
MURRAY
And so but again, like we're filling in these blanks like, fuck and show us this or tell us this.

00;28;32;09 - 00;28;43;23
JAMES
I mean, that was my other point. I mean, I feel like, like everything we've we've tried, we've been all these episodes. We've been doing all of the episodes just sort of like we're trying to wrap our heads around Boba Fett's like motives and who he is.

00;28;43;23 - 00;28;53;13
JAMES
But a lot of this is us inferring like, I don't like necessarily need them to tell me, but I think we really did need this a scene where he had this revelation that I'm going to be a good guy.

00;28;53;13 - 00;29;08;14
JAMES
That's like, Yes, what's really missing? I mean, I appreciate the fact that maybe they're thinking as the audience is smarter, but it's not smarter if you don't ever really give me the moment where he went from evil bounty hunter, dirtbag of the Universe to man of the people.

00;29;08;15 - 00;29;17;28
JAMES
These are my people I need. I need that scene. I feel like and we're just inferring this, and this is the first time he's ever verbalized it as this episode and friggin cat bane had to be the voice of the audience.

00;29;18;12 - 00;29;24;20
JAMES
All the questions about eight or six episodes and say, What are you doing? I don't get the angle. I understand the show.

00;29;25;10 - 00;29;25;21
Speaker 3
Or I.

00;29;25;21 - 00;29;37;03
JAMES
Try to kill you. Tell me what you're doing. And he gave the answer, and I don't know if it was satisfying. I think I needed more from the show to believe at least this version of Boba Fett somewhat.

00;29;37;06 - 00;29;48;23
JOSH
That's fair. And Murray real quick that cat bane scene where he fuckin stabs him. I thought we got a glimpse of that bloodlust. You keep on talking about that that we saw in The Mandalorian when he shows up for the first time.

00;29;49;01 - 00;29;58;10
JOSH
Mm hmm. And I did like that. There was like some ambiguity there about, is he actually still a killer? Like, Is this going to work this whole good guy, man of the people routine?

00;29;58;10 - 00;30;12;03
JON
I didn't understand that at all because we've seen countless good guys with insane body counts, the entire Star Wars thing, and it's like, you're going to kill a bad guy. You're a killer. It's like, I don't know. I've seen plenty of good guys kill bad guys in their fine Adobe.

00;30;12;03 - 00;30;12;27
JON
Like, it's so many.

00;30;12;27 - 00;30;14;01
JAMES
More guys, though. Yeah.

00;30;14;08 - 00;30;25;21
JON
So how is Luke and Han and Leia and Finn and Poe? And it's just like, name them, you know? So it's just like when he said that I was like, That's kind of weak sauce. Like, I don't see a conflict.

00;30;26;23 - 00;30;27;24
JON
This has been a dick.

00;30;28;07 - 00;30;30;06
JOSH
Yeah, just being a dick, trying to get him mad. Murray?

00;30;30;22 - 00;30;49;00
MURRAY
I think it was Mickey was saying about the writing on some of the like the TV is the or maybe Josh was saying that the audience is a step ahead of them. And I think the audience only gets a step ahead of these writers when they're trying to not fall behind the audience that they should just write

00;30;49;00 - 00;31;08;20
MURRAY
the story. And just like, I guess this is coming from a writer slash wannabe writer that, like the story, should be what's dictating everything and stay true to the story all the way through to the end. Don't worry about any like impressing people, because that's what happens is you get these glimpses that are kind of cool, but

00;31;08;20 - 00;31;28;21
MURRAY
then you lose sight of what the true story. Play and so that's why I think that the original reason I raised my hand, but I was I was just like. I mentioned it before, I get so bummed out when they have these great characters like campaign and don't get me wrong, I know that I'm sure if I

00;31;28;21 - 00;31;42;14
MURRAY
watch Clone Wars, it would have been, you know, 20 episode build up or something like that to this moment. But it's kind of that Marvel paradox like, Oh, you want the full impact of this Spider-Man moment? Watch all 24 other movies, and then you're going to love it.

00;31;42;15 - 00;32;00;04
MURRAY
And so I didn't get that. So all I got was this awesome character that showed up the episode before and then is now gone. And so like two things that I thought could be cause one is a few as a reoccurring presence, like a looming presence throughout the whole show.

00;32;00;04 - 00;32;21;00
MURRAY
But maybe you only see shadows and silhouettes of him, so you still get the reveal. So the whole all those episodes? I think that's cap. I bet you that's exactly who it is and has that vibe. And then with actually, I guess, I had other thoughts like one, I thought it could be cool for him to beat

00;32;21;00 - 00;32;28;28
MURRAY
Boba Fett, like like and he's going to maybe do his like, death shot. And instead of Boba Fett kind of like, Oh, I could use my Tusken raider stick.

00;32;29;11 - 00;32;30;15
JOSH
That that I thought was cool.

00;32;30;15 - 00;32;50;07
MURRAY
Actually, it's cool, but I think that like the there wasn't what's the payoff for me? I just met this guy like 20 minutes ago, so I don't get the full impact of that moment. But like, just say, if you had Mando jump in and defend Boba Fett, and now Mando has a looming presence of like revenge that's

00;32;50;07 - 00;33;08;02
MURRAY
going for all of season three. That's like in the thing like, you don't have to kill him or even, I don't know. It's just like, it's just really crazy, because in the end, like justified season two, right, Boyd Crowder is trying to go good and he just like, kind of like a good godfather.

00;33;08;02 - 00;33;26;25
MURRAY
He gets pulled back into the underworld. Like, show us a struggle like that with Boba Fett that he's actually trying to be good. You don't need this groundbreaking scene. There's like, was it stand by me? When River Phenix tells the story of when he was caught like the teacher thought that he stole and the like really damaged

00;33;26;25 - 00;33;39;20
MURRAY
his psyche that no one believed them. Like, you can have an honest moment like that of Boba Fett saying, like, No, I'm trying to do good because of something like like, give up stakes, and he's trying to walk the right path and not just be like, Hey, guys.

00;33;40;13 - 00;33;43;24
MURRAY
Like I said before, my character arc is a straight line. Like, it just doesn't.

00;33;44;09 - 00;33;48;22
JON
Make sense when the guy that like dump the spice in the desert instead of Cobb vents, you know.

00;33;49;14 - 00;34;05;02
MURRAY
Like I, I think that it would have been cool to have Timothy Olyphant like not in the tank at the end, but maybe fighting with like one like in a sling like rather than like. If you're going to keep him around, why are you taking him out of the episode?

00;34;05;02 - 00;34;27;06
MURRAY
He could have been a part of it. Also, the last thing I want to ask you guys a question that I'll shut my mouth is what would your thoughts have been on if when it went to show that the band, the tank or whatever it's called, that cad bane was like, he's like trying to redeem him like

00;34;27;29 - 00;34;31;23
MURRAY
rather than kill him, because then he would still be around and then he could maybe have.

00;34;34;16 - 00;34;35;08
Speaker 3
Yeah. Yeah.

00;34;35;12 - 00;34;41;14
MURRAY
Well, then you could have yeah, like and then what? But he doesn't turn good. He still is broken bed and then.

00;34;41;22 - 00;34;53;16
JOSH
Yeah, but there was something that offended him about what the pikes were doing that really pissed him off. So. So he's like, You know what? Like, like, you know, fuck you. I'm going to help fat because fuck you guys, you guys suck.

00;34;53;21 - 00;35;04;13
JOSH
It's not that he's he's he's become a good guy. Yes, because those guys are the pikes and the mayor. They pissed him off more than fat.

00;35;04;20 - 00;35;17;08
MURRAY
And he doesn't ever have to be like a good guy. Maybe that could be a struggle with, yeah, if he's in Mando or another thing, it's just like, it's like you were saved because we thought that, like, almost like what happens if Vader never got redeemed, right?

00;35;17;08 - 00;35;28;01
MURRAY
Like, you know, like Luke's making this thing like Vader, you're good. I could tell you're good, but instead of it happening, it doesn't like you could do that same kind of things like, No, I saved you in the tank.

00;35;28;02 - 00;35;31;05
JOSH
You mean if, like Vader still through the empire, like into the reactor?

00;35;31;05 - 00;35;33;10
MURRAY
No, that was like drawing a comparison.

00;35;33;10 - 00;35;37;03
JON
Well, Kylo Ren did that in The Last Jedi. They fight side by side and.

00;35;37;03 - 00;35;38;29
Speaker 3
Oh yeah, right? Yes, yes. And so.

00;35;39;05 - 00;35;39;16
JON
He's not.

00;35;39;17 - 00;35;52;20
MURRAY
Doing the same. Yeah, it's the same thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So the struggle is, is captain good or see working in angle the whole time as he like for the next season of whatever he's like. But can he be trusted or is it?

00;35;52;24 - 00;36;08;08
MURRAY
Does he have a price like he was? He's working with Mando or Boba, but if someone pays a more, then he's got no loyalty. Like it could add like intrigue to this, rather than just being like a two directors playing with action figures and you get some cool, awesome stuff.

00;36;08;08 - 00;36;14;00
MURRAY
But overall, it's just like treading water. And so I've been done with the conversation, a simple conversation.

00;36;14;00 - 00;36;23;16
JON
That one little thing about the text I just remembered at the end there's that little stinger where Fennec goes in and assassinate everyone that in charge of the pikes. Why didn't they just.

00;36;23;21 - 00;36;27;00
Speaker 3
Should have been best? Yeah, well, no. But even then I was thinking.

00;36;27;17 - 00;36;29;04
JOSH
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing.

00;36;29;07 - 00;36;30;02
Speaker 3
Like a.

00;36;30;04 - 00;36;34;28
JON
Like as Mary just said a and as Russia said, it should have been fat and b, why the hell.

00;36;34;28 - 00;36;37;15
Speaker 3
Didn't? But again, he's really got the bloodlust is bad.

00;36;37;15 - 00;36;41;13
JON
Why didn't they just do that to begin with? Like, it was so easy?

00;36;41;17 - 00;36;42;17
Speaker 3
Yeah, it's like, it's.

00;36;42;17 - 00;36;47;29
JON
Like, she's like, Oh, it's Tuesday, time to kill the head of the pike. It's like, Well, what the hell? Like, why is there a show.

00;36;48;06 - 00;36;49;24
Speaker 3
In the first place.

00;36;49;25 - 00;36;51;25
RUSS
Symptomatic of bad writing across the board?

00;36;52;07 - 00;36;53;17
Speaker 3
But anyway? Well, but well.

00;36;53;17 - 00;37;05;02
JOSH
But that's kind of tricky, though, because Jon Favreau wrote all these episodes, with the exception of he has. Filoni has co-written by credit on episode six, and Favreau also wrote all the episodes of the two seasons of Mandalorian.

00;37;05;02 - 00;37;06;22
JOSH
Yeah, those are both really good.

00;37;06;29 - 00;37;10;05
RUSS
Yes. I mean, these are bad. I mean. You could be both. He can be both good.

00;37;10;13 - 00;37;11;06
Speaker 3
Right? Yeah, yeah.

00;37;11;06 - 00;37;12;09
RUSS
Yeah, I think he's bad here.

00;37;12;16 - 00;37;13;16
MURRAY
Ohhh, dialectics.

00;37;13;17 - 00;37;18;28
MICKEY
Oh yeah. Well, now dialectics been brought up, so I got a lot to say.

00;37;18;28 - 00;37;32;10
Speaker 3
But yeah, well, first I was going to say something about you were saying about like the voice of TV now and everything, but also really quick. Like now that we brought up the whole scene where they brought Cad Bane, where that was like the scene where like, Oh, we're going to figure out why that

00;37;32;10 - 00;37;40;17
MICKEY
went good or bad, and you know why he's good, narrow whatever, but actually made me realize they should have done the opposite. They should have just never answered it. And then what they should've never done is he always did the right thing.

00;37;40;18 - 00;37;51;13
MICKEY
He always stood up. But he never says why or even. Or like, he never cares that he's doing it. Like specifically, I'm thinking of spaghetti western. I'm thinking of Charles Bronson character like in those movies. Charles Bronson is helping the little guys.

00;37;51;18 - 00;37;59;17
MICKEY
He's doing the right thing. He's killing bad guys. But the whole time you don't feel like he's a good guy and you don't know why he's just like, he's like, Yeah, for some reason, you just woke up one day, flip the coin.

00;37;59;17 - 00;38;02;02
MICKEY
He's like, I'm going to be a good guy today. And I felt like maybe.

00;38;02;14 - 00;38;02;28
Speaker 3
Shane.

00;38;02;28 - 00;38;12;17
MICKEY
Right? Yeah, like that could have benefited from that. All that stuff like that kind of like nihilistic spaghetti western anti-hero. Like he would've been better if he was an ant. They made him a hero, and it would have been better.

00;38;13;02 - 00;38;27;18
MICKEY
They still kind of made the same show. Every single thing could have been the same, but if just the acting like was directed, like, maybe he did a bad job acting. But just if he was directed slightly different where it's like, just have a sneer all the time, we're just like, look grumpy and miserable all the time

00;38;27;18 - 00;38;29;21
MICKEY
or something that have no patience.

00;38;29;22 - 00;38;30;18
Speaker 3
Yeah, but.

00;38;30;18 - 00;38;31;17
RUSS
Characterization.

00;38;32;04 - 00;38;44;07
MICKEY
But again, so the point, though, like what you were saying, Josh were like, This is where I want to bring up and I talk about a couple of other TV shows, a couple of contemporary ones and an old one in relation to this episode is that, like you were saying, there's there's like a voice thing that I

00;38;44;07 - 00;38;58;20
MICKEY
feel like there's kind of not here. And I think there hasn't been TV hasn't to me, been great in the last couple of years. But the three good shows to me, I want I want to highlight is Jon Wilson show Righteous Gemstones and Succession, and all three of those things just does.

00;38;58;24 - 00;39;11;18
MICKEY
They just riff on their own vibe. They don't care. You know, like obviously, people are talking about him on Twitter and everyone loves it. But but they're not responding to Twitter, and they just all have like these distinct individual voices that are just going to go crazy every week and do what they want to do.

00;39;11;28 - 00;39;24;03
MICKEY
And I just feel like that's something that's missing from most other TV show that's been on for the last few years. Plus plus this show, I think. And then also, I want to relate to like this idea where you're talking about there's no plan, there's no plan.

00;39;24;04 - 00;39;33;08
MICKEY
And again, there also feels like there's no plan from the writers per se. And there actually doesn't feel like there's much of a plan for the bad guys, either. And actually, a big issue I had with this whole episode is there's no kind of physicality to this.

00;39;33;13 - 00;39;43;17
MICKEY
Ace or idea and like especially when like the bad guys are pinned down, I don't feel like they're ever in danger for some reason, those walls are going to protect them no matter what, as it's kind of weird, like, I mean, I get it, they don't want to kill.

00;39;43;18 - 00;39;53;27
MICKEY
Like if it would suck if a bunch of farmers came out and then like they killed half of them and would have given more stakes, but felt bad, but like something. It's like it's kind of right. Was it the third season of Walking Dead?

00;39;53;27 - 00;40;04;15
MICKEY
That was a prison season that everyone hated? Yeah, but the one thing is like, why it worked for me is it was like kind of doing a Michael Mann thing where those boring episodes in that first half of the season it established that space.

00;40;04;15 - 00;40;15;19
MICKEY
You understood the complete layout of that prison, the hills and souls, which gave you that aspect when they did that. Like that final gun battle and the governor's people came and invaded, you're like, Oh, I get it, I get why these guns are here.

00;40;15;19 - 00;40;26;21
MICKEY
I get why these guys are here. I get the complete Kevin McCallister set up to the whole thing because they set that up. And again, this is kind of a point I've been making is they had 77 episodes they could have had them.

00;40;26;21 - 00;40;38;18
MICKEY
It doesn't matter. They kind of did. And this is also the point we were saying. Like, we're like, also, there's this stakes between the the the mods and the farm people that could have been like they they had so many hours that they could have focused creating.

00;40;38;24 - 00;40;48;24
MICKEY
They could have had like B and C storylines focusing on these characters and to bring it back to another thing this weekend because I always browse HBO Max, what's going to go and like, Oh, return of live, and that's going to go.

00;40;49;03 - 00;41;04;13
MICKEY
And then also, like one of my favorite movies is is a repo man. And like, why we're here. I'm thinking, like, why do these mods not feel like how can like a like an hour and 20 minute movie make five punk kids feel distinctive and care and like real characters as opposed to this like seven hours they

00;41;04;13 - 00;41;14;29
MICKEY
had with this TV show, not not do the same with them as that. What again gave him more stakes to this final shootout? And one last thing do we how do we know that spice is bad spice might be cool?

00;41;14;29 - 00;41;20;13
MICKEY
What does spice is just weed or like LSD. And Boba Fett's just a cop.

00;41;20;17 - 00;41;21;28
MICKEY
Fuck that. Like, like.

00;41;22;08 - 00;41;22;24
Speaker 3
Yeah.

00;41;23;02 - 00;41;23;23
MURRAY
What a narc.

00;41;23;23 - 00;41;25;07
Speaker 3
Fuck, yeah, guy. Which makes me think that.

00;41;25;13 - 00;41;25;25
JON
This is.

00;41;25;26 - 00;41;26;09
Speaker 3
Actually something.

00;41;26;09 - 00;41;30;11
MICKEY
That should just be the Hamsterdam rehash. But in space, from The Wire.

00;41;30;12 - 00;41;31;05
JOSH
From the. Wire.

00;41;32;17 - 00;41;43;27
JON
But Mickey, that is that is the irony. They had seven hours to get into these scenes where like, they could have a scene like in Saving Private Ryan, where they're sitting in the church and the end Giovanni Ribisi talk about his mom.

00;41;43;27 - 00;41;57;29
JON
And like, nothing that's sad, but like they just kind of reinforce is like, I remember killing this one guy and yada yada yada or the mods being like anything. There is the reason why I got a robotic arm is because of Blair.

00;41;58;06 - 00;42;12;16
JON
And then like, or I just watch aliens recently, which is another fucking masterpiece. And but there is a great side. You're talking about the use of space where they're like, OK, they had the blueprints like, we can barricade the doors here, here and here.

00;42;12;22 - 00;42;25;23
JON
No creature is going to get in. And then there's like a scene of them, like blow torching the the doors, put up barricades and like they're planning out. There are things that when they actually do attack, you know exactly what the spaces.

00;42;26;00 - 00;42;31;27
JON
You know, the stakes because they're trapped, yada yada yada. So I think that that's a very valid point, Mickey, about you.

00;42;31;28 - 00;42;40;08
MURRAY
So much could be done through conversation. It doesn't even need to be tremendous scenes. Like you said it just sitting around talking. They could just talk and have.

00;42;40;08 - 00;42;40;24
Speaker 3
A nice moment.

00;42;40;24 - 00;42;46;16
JON
Where the showdown, you know? Yeah, they're all getting to know each other. Even new Barca could have a moment, you know?

00;42;46;19 - 00;42;47;21
Speaker 3
Yeah, yeah.

00;42;47;21 - 00;43;04;12
RUSS
It's like that classic like were underpowered. We don't have the resources kind of little guy army guys, you know, a big kind of army or, you know, as this thinking recently rewatched Willow, you know, you know, I won't have any spoilers, but there's quite like a like, you know, like, how are we going to attack, assault this

00;43;04;12 - 00;43;22;16
RUSS
like fortress? You know, like clearly you have to lure them out to you. You know, you have to use you had to be clever like. And in Willow's in the Lucasfilm pantheon, like, you know, their show. Yeah. And boy, and I won't be podcasting on that one.

00;43;22;16 - 00;43;34;09
RUSS
Maybe I I don't know if you know, if you need another heel, but like I look at it like that would have been interesting. Like the whole thing with these kind of episodes like the bad guys clearly outnumber the good guys.

00;43;34;09 - 00;43;45;16
RUSS
The good guys are down, then they're up, then they're down, then they're up like, you have to take us on a rollercoaster ride. You have to excite us, you have to thrill us. We all need knew the rancorous coming, but we've goes to fly off to get its act.

00;43;45;21 - 00;43;50;12
RUSS
It's going to go with an encore now. All right, cool. But but that's really not enough. And I just keep on thinking I.

00;43;50;12 - 00;43;52;21
JOSH
Actually thought he was going to go get the slave one, frankly.

00;43;52;22 - 00;43;55;15
RUSS
Oh, yeah, well, he has a remote control for that thing. Like, Oh.

00;43;55;15 - 00;43;56;00
Speaker 3
Right, probably.

00;43;56;00 - 00;43;58;10
JON
Would've been a smarter choice because you could call for shit.

00;43;58;23 - 00;43;59;14
RUSS
But but I will say.

00;43;59;14 - 00;44;02;02
MURRAY
That how could you fake Godzilla and King Kong into this? Well, that's.

00;44;02;02 - 00;44;03;02
RUSS
True. I will say that.

00;44;03;02 - 00;44;04;05
MURRAY
one reference I've had.

00;44;04;05 - 00;44;18;19
RUSS
When The Ringer shows up, though one recourse smack would just launch that, that that droid and I think like, you know, it's like, you know, rock, paper, scissors. It's like Rinker Laser Saber Shoot like Rehnquist shows up, record shows up and Rinker like totally just wins.

00;44;18;19 - 00;44;29;10
RUSS
Like just, you know, with the leverage of a rancors arm and a swingers, hurl one of those droids into like, you know, Mos Eisley from Odessa. But like, it's like, launch that thing like like that. That would have been amusing like that.

00;44;29;10 - 00;44;40;10
RUSS
That's a game changer that shows up like you're really down and out. Boom, Rinker and. Then you win, you don't you don't have trouble cutting into the shield generated by the droid with the dark saber, we're like. Move slowly.

00;44;40;10 - 00;44;48;22
RUSS
It's a dune situation. Move slowly into the shield, like with your organic limb, like they're in question to in is crush the neck of it. I just think.

00;44;48;22 - 00;44;49;24
JOSH
Yeah, that's what I thought was it.

00;44;49;24 - 00;44;50;14
MURRAY
Shows.

00;44;50;18 - 00;44;50;27
Speaker 3
Too.

00;44;51;18 - 00;45;05;24
RUSS
You have to write a whole action scene and it shows like you've never watched a Single Siege movie, a single. Any type of war war story like these are all things that have been done so much like take what you've been done, bring it into a Star Wars realm, make it kind of spacey and exciting.

00;45;06;06 - 00;45;19;15
RUSS
I just I just feel like it was a total letdown. I felt like TV felt like Xena, Hercules, like, you know, also in the daytime. Like, why can't we see a nighttime fight in in Moscow? Like, you know, lasers.

00;45;19;15 - 00;45;22;10
JON
The lasers lighting up the environment with.

00;45;22;10 - 00;45;29;05
RUSS
The tracer being like, Give us something that was exciting. Slow the shutter down. I don't know. Use some cinema. I don't know. The camera does.

00;45;29;13 - 00;45;32;12
MURRAY
Thank you, users. That's what I'm saying. Make us think about it.

00;45;32;12 - 00;45;33;10
Speaker 3
Being move the whole thing to.

00;45;33;11 - 00;45;35;27
MURRAY
Use. Some use some cinema. Fucking yeah.

00;45;35;29 - 00;45;37;03
RUSS
Fog that shit.

00;45;37;03 - 00;45;38;14
Speaker 3
Fog, cool.

00;45;38;25 - 00;45;42;00
RUSS
Hug the whole like some gas grenades like that shit.

00;45;42;00 - 00;45;42;14
JON
I want to go.

00;45;42;14 - 00;45;43;04
Speaker 3
Oh shit, shit.

00;45;43;05 - 00;46;01;22
RUSS
Just make it visually exciting. And everyone's in I Android eyes glow or something. It's just there's so many opportunities and it didn't feel cinematic. It felt fast and rushed. It felt unplanned. And it just it is. We've seen too much TV, too many movies, specifically, too many like battle sequences to say like this doesn't even stand up

00;46;01;22 - 00;46;04;19
RUSS
to any other Star Wars battle sequence. It really underwhelming.

00;46;05;06 - 00;46;07;21
Speaker 3
I'm done. Yeah, no. I mean, I agree.

00;46;07;21 - 00;46;20;06
JOSH
I think part of it is, you know, frankly, when you decide to make a whole bunch of TV shows, you have less resources and time and money and planning and this is TV and it shows.

00;46;20;19 - 00;46;23;07
Speaker 3
Boy, whatever. Yeah.

00;46;23;12 - 00;46;40;15
JOSH
But you know, once again, once again, I am someone who doesn't necessarily think that that's a bad thing. I don't know if I can separate my my knowledge of how TV is made from my love of it. But James, your final closing thoughts if you have any final thoughts.

00;46;40;24 - 00;46;50;23
JAMES
I mean, I think it's like, Yeah, I was I was little. I think the thing that left the bad the worst taste in my mouth was the fact that Fennec Shand did all the killing in that room because I should have been baba unless you Michael.

00;46;50;29 - 00;46;58;24
JAMES
Michael Corleone Coryell on that. But we didn't see him give the order. It wasn't like she pulled her aside and said, Kill all those people and.

00;46;58;25 - 00;47;00;04
Speaker 3
All that would have been great. Yeah.

00;47;00;12 - 00;47;01;21
MURRAY
That was so good.

00;47;01;22 - 00;47;06;26
Speaker 3
I didn't ask who gave the order. I accepted it because this is the business we've chosen.

00;47;07;10 - 00;47;12;11
JON
I'm not sure if Boba Fett came up with any of the plans because it seems like Fennec was the one dictating the plans.

00;47;12;18 - 00;47;23;29
JAMES
So she's definitely a tactician and she knows doing. And I needed that moment where he either did the dirty work or he ordered her to do the dirty work. It kind of, to me, almost read like she went off and did this on his on her own and didn't tell him.

00;47;24;15 - 00;47;30;25
JON
To kill or shoot all Tuscan family. And she has no connection to them, so it should have been him getting his revenge somehow.

00;47;30;26 - 00;47;49;23
JAMES
Yeah, something. Yeah, that was the most least satisfying part of this episode. I guess the most stuff we kind of mentioned is like, I the Mando. You know, Gray Goose situation was great. I mean, I was felt very warm feelings when he jumped in his arms and force leapt into his arms and all the good stuff learning

00;47;49;23 - 00;48;01;03
JAMES
to use the force. And it seemed like Mando, for a brief period of time, was wielding the dark saber with a little less effort than he was previously. So I don't know. Maybe he's accepting that, you know, that.

00;48;01;03 - 00;48;06;25
MURRAY
His focus was so on Grogu being safe that he didn't have time to focus on anything else.

00;48;06;26 - 00;48;17;03
JAMES
Right? But he he has the potential to to wield this within him. So I don't know if that's that's where that's going to him to be. The leader of Mandalore, I guess, is maybe where that story's going. But yeah, I don't I don't know.

00;48;17;03 - 00;48;26;24
JAMES
I mean, I'm looking forward to Mandalorian. Season three is, I mean, I want to see, you know, Grogu and Amando flying away and they're there. Nabu Starfighter.

00;48;26;25 - 00;48;29;25
MURRAY
So oh my god, when is tapping on the glass?

00;48;30;01 - 00;48;32;23
Speaker 3
Yeah, that was so good. That was the best.

00;48;32;27 - 00;48;34;15
JON
Part of the entire episode. Yeah.

00;48;38;13 - 00;48;46;09
JAMES
And yeah, I I don't know. I don't know what. I don't know. I'm assuming it's getting a season two or he'll show up in Mandalorian season three, Boba Fett or.

00;48;46;10 - 00;48;48;08
JOSH
I don't know. I don't know. I mean, by the end.

00;48;48;08 - 00;48;48;21
Speaker 3
It kind of just.

00;48;48;21 - 00;48;50;06
MURRAY
Make him a passing character.

00;48;50;06 - 00;48;51;03
Speaker 3
Yeah, yeah.

00;48;52;00 - 00;48;58;28
JOSH
Yeah, return him to his roots, returning to his roots. He's just a passing character that shows up for a minute every once in a while. And you're like, Oh, Boba Fett.

00;48;59;17 - 00;49;13;03
JAMES
Yeah, I mean, it could be that. I mean, it seems like they're doing the MCU thing where all these shows are going to be linked, even if it doesn't seem appropriate. Like if these this guy is going to show up because he they have a show too, and we can use them and why not show up?

00;49;13;03 - 00;49;26;09
JAMES
So I don't know. Like I said, I didn't. I didn't. I didn't love this episode. I can't say I didn't like the series because I thought it showed me some of the best Star Wars I've seen. But I'm mixed about it, but I'm looking forward to Mando.

00;49;26;09 - 00;49;33;29
JAMES
Looking forward will be one Ahsoka and me and the other ones because I was in for these characters and they appeared in. The show, so why not?

00;49;34;09 - 00;49;42;09
JOSH
Were you disappointed or were you surprised when Luke's X-Wing showed up and the cockpit opened and Luke wasn't there? Or was that what you were expecting?

00;49;43;24 - 00;49;56;22
JAMES
I guess I was a little disappointed that Luke wasn't there, but I also got it because one that's probably the budget they had for. I mean, it takes like three people to act Luke Skywalker, Mark Hamill and two other people.

00;49;57;05 - 00;50;05;20
JAMES
And then, however, at least at least and then how many of our technology people it takes to make Luke Skywalker. So I got the fact that we can't get greedy, but.

00;50;06;10 - 00;50;13;09
MURRAY
Plus you would have destroyed everybody like he would be the only person. Yeah, because he took on all the Dark Trooper, right? So yes.

00;50;13;09 - 00;50;15;06
JAMES
That makes more sense to yeah, I mean, he.

00;50;15;06 - 00;50;16;24
JON
Would have just annihilated everybody there.

00;50;17;15 - 00;50;20;04
JOSH
And it's also not his fight. He's like, he's like, I'm not.

00;50;20;13 - 00;50;20;23
Speaker 3
Yeah.

00;50;21;01 - 00;50;33;14
JAMES
Yeah, I'm not going back to there. But I will say, I mean, because I even mention it in the last episode, in this episode. It was nice seeing R2-D2 again. Like I said, nothing. I mean, seeing our two back and the X-Wing back was nice, but I guess I was momentarily disappointed.

00;50;33;14 - 00;50;42;05
JAMES
But I also got it. Like why Luke? It would be interesting. But then we're doing a Luke Skywalker show and this is Boba Fett, and let's have the focus at least be on him for his last episode.

00;50;42;15 - 00;50;43;10
JON
So he's actually.

00;50;43;22 - 00;50;44;27
JAMES
He wasn't around for like.

00;50;45;12 - 00;50;55;13
JOSH
Yeah, that was the moment I realized that they weren't going down the path that we were talking about last episode. The team up of the original trilogy characters, which I think is probably wise.

00;50;55;13 - 00;50;59;02
JON
Save that until it's rightfully earned. Don't just fucking throw it into the eyes.

00;50;59;11 - 00;51;00;22
MURRAY
To try to save the series.

00;51;01;09 - 00;51;05;17
JAMES
I mean, Russ had the best idea with the original bounty hunters.

00;51;05;18 - 00;51;07;22
Speaker 3
That should have been the guy that should be.

00;51;07;22 - 00;51;09;23
JAMES
Like, Dang, that should have been a gang gang.

00;51;09;24 - 00;51;11;05
JOSH
That should absolutely that.

00;51;11;07 - 00;51;12;09
JON
That would have been amazing.

00;51;12;15 - 00;51;13;16
JOSH
That would have been awesome.

00;51;13;20 - 00;51;16;21
JAMES
I mean, for Zucker says, some are wondering if anyone remembers his name, let alone.

00;51;16;22 - 00;51;20;02
Speaker 3
Like, I'm a fallen Zack. You know.

00;51;21;04 - 00;51;35;14
MICKEY
I guess just since the point of this so-called Grogu just showed up, I just need to say that Amy Sedaris spoke for my people when R2-D2 told her name, and he's like, Oh, what an awful name. Just like, there you go.

00;51;35;14 - 00;51;38;02
MICKEY
That's that's why she was on this series. It was worth it all for that.

00;51;38;07 - 00;51;39;27
JOSH
And you said, I'm not calling you that.

00;51;39;27 - 00;51;41;01
Speaker 3
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yes.

00;51;41;01 - 00;51;44;29
MICKEY
That's for me that that was definitely like fan service or towards IKEA that people like me.

00;51;45;01 - 00;51;45;24
MURRAY
Oh, for sure. Yeah.

00;51;46;09 - 00;51;57;16
MICKEY
I also, yeah, I was actually surprised about R2-D2 at all last week because honestly, he was a delight and he was a delight again. I like a really feisty. He's getting even more feisty in his old age, which I really appreciate.

00;51;58;10 - 00;52;10;17
MICKEY
But the other thing like speaking of Amy Sedaris, I totally didn't realize this until they were onscreen together. But the The Twilight majordomo guy is an old second city person with her. She actually has like her own series called At Home with Amy Sedaris, and he's on that.

00;52;10;18 - 00;52;21;12
MICKEY
That's why they had him on. There must be. There had to be a reasoning behind that that they're that they have because he's the worst. He's I think he's the husband from Veep. So, you know.

00;52;21;24 - 00;52;22;09
Speaker 3
Oh shit.

00;52;22;09 - 00;52;33;13
MICKEY
Yeah, yeah. And then and that's and this realizing like, Oh, that's the guy from her show at home with her. And he's always on every episode as I think it's like a weird thing where she cooks in her kitchen and is supposed to be like, like a Martha Stewart show.

00;52;33;13 - 00;52;41;12
MICKEY
But it's a spoof of those, and he always comes in as a mailman or something. But then when I realize that I'm like, Oh yeah, that's right. He's he's Selina Meyer's husband for Veep. So I just thought that was like a nice little.

00;52;41;12 - 00;52;42;09
MICKEY
Yeah, it's it.

00;52;42;10 - 00;52;52;04
MURRAY
Seemed like a nod that I wasn't getting like their scene together seemed like a wink at the camera that I just wasn't understanding.

00;52;53;03 - 00;53;05;18
JON
I sense I've already said in previous podcasts how he's kind of like that. I was like, this dude with like the Seinfeld delivery, whatever. What's the deal with the right now? He certainly did appreciate the scene. Yeah, I did.

00;53;05;19 - 00;53;09;15
JON
I did actually appreciate the scene where Boba basically sends a note to.

00;53;09;15 - 00;53;11;16
Speaker 3
What could be his death. Yeah, and I.

00;53;11;16 - 00;53;13;12
MURRAY
Wish it was no offense to the.

00;53;13;12 - 00;53;14;21
Speaker 3
Kerry would have been, but then.

00;53;15;08 - 00;53;26;21
JON
If they mowed him down, but at the same time, it's like it worked. Either way, because he chokes up, he's like, Well, how about you? Just tell me what you want? And like, that's actually a perfect way. Like, I did this whole thing.

00;53;26;29 - 00;53;33;28
JON
So like, does it give him like a moment? And I was like, God, that was that was an earned moment. I actually gave the show that credit. Absolutely.

00;53;34;03 - 00;53;35;08
MURRAY
That was a really funny senior.

00;53;35;24 - 00;53;36;16
Speaker 3
Yeah, Murray.

00;53;36;20 - 00;53;54;24
MURRAY
So one thing that I was thinking that could have helped you because, you know, I'm saying I was saying that so many of these issues could have been handled with simple conversations about, like their past or whatever. What they should have done is have that moment a conversation about the past that leads to something in the cantina

00;53;54;26 - 00;54;02;00
MURRAY
with prophecy to Flashdance. Jennifer Beals like a really good.

00;54;02;00 - 00;54;02;23
RUSS
Part of the show.

00;54;03;12 - 00;54;19;04
MURRAY
A really good scene between the two of them that lasts and it's shot like cinematically. And it's good. It doesn't even need to have like tension. It could just be like two friends going this way. When the cantina blows up, you actually give a shit also like kills like two birds with one stone.

00;54;19;05 - 00;54;19;10
MURRAY
I was.

00;54;19;10 - 00;54;20;11
RUSS
Sad about.

00;54;20;11 - 00;54;21;23
Speaker 3
Hamill's. Yeah, well.

00;54;21;23 - 00;54;32;04
MURRAY
Yeah, no. But like like. So that could have added stakes to both that scene and giving giving us some character development for four Boba Fett and some.

00;54;32;16 - 00;54;33;23
JON
That's a fantastic idea.

00;54;34;10 - 00;54;52;21
JOSH
To build on that a little bit to go along with something. You know, Russ said a few episodes ago, like the idea that Boba would have like hidden weapons and stuff all over the place. Like, he would have been interesting if he had a network and he he activated his network and the Jessica Beals character.

00;54;52;22 - 00;54;56;02
JOSH
They could have known each other for Wales. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I can't get.

00;54;56;02 - 00;54;57;20
MURRAY
To know each other from seventh Heaven, but.

00;54;57;20 - 00;55;07;05
JOSH
They could have known each other from way back and had a history. And like, you know, like, I remember when you, you know, you did the blah blah job like you were really nasty, but he had it coming.

00;55;07;05 - 00;55;13;06
JOSH
So like blah blah blah or something like that, like she could have been the one who's like, You know, what's the deal? Like, what are you doing?

00;55;13;10 - 00;55;22;08
JON
Yeah, she could have been like, maybe like a dancer from the past or like somebody. And then you could be like, Yeah, she's like, You've really moved on up. Now you have.

00;55;22;08 - 00;55;23;12
Speaker 3
Your. Yeah, well, I was like, Yeah.

00;55;24;08 - 00;55;28;00
JON
And then she's like, Well, you look like a change guy. And like, they could have had like a real like.

00;55;28;06 - 00;55;29;25
JOSH
It's like, Well, you look like shit or.

00;55;30;15 - 00;55;31;07
Speaker 3
Yeah, exactly.

00;55;31;15 - 00;55;44;00
JON
You could have been drinking weird blue alcohol, just talking about the good old days. And then, like Murray said, once she explodes and be like, Oh, this means something, because when that scene happened, I, you know what? I thought I was like.

00;55;44;25 - 00;55;45;14
Speaker 3
Actually, bob.

00;55;45;23 - 00;55;59;02
JON
But this next rebound, the untouchables, I thought to myself, Oh, that's what they did with that character. Like I like academically, I was like, Oh, I thought they were going to, like, have a reveal with her or do something they don't.

00;55;59;12 - 00;56;01;10
RUSS
They don't land any of these things. They don't land.

00;56;01;17 - 00;56;05;29
JON
I was like, Oh man, she's a really good actor. Like, keep her on. Like, what? What was that all about?

00;56;06;00 - 00;56;12;25
MURRAY
And I should have done is have a big stash of his secret weapons that you like in the cantina.

00;56;12;25 - 00;56;14;27
Speaker 3
Yeah, that's where all your weapons.

00;56;14;27 - 00;56;16;22
MURRAY
And he's like, I don't give a shit. Like, like.

00;56;16;22 - 00;56;25;08
RUSS
In her Roger Rabbit. When there's that, there's like the back room and he's like, you know, the I need to borrow your camera and they take the back room like, and he has that to cash in in there.

00;56;25;20 - 00;56;26;02
RUSS
Yes.

00;56;26;03 - 00;56;39;14
JON
And I think someone like Robert Rodriguez, who borrows a lot from these gun fu movies like Jon Wu Stuff a better tomorrow when he has like the guns planted in like the potted plant in like a drawer and he's going down the hallway and he pulls another gun.

00;56;39;14 - 00;56;44;18
JON
Like, it would've been cool. It's like Boba is getting chase, and he's just like popping guns from underneath Jon Walls.

00;56;44;18 - 00;56;45;27
MURRAY
Who does that? Yeah, but like.

00;56;45;27 - 00;56;48;19
JON
I like just grabbing things around and like, what's going to take him.

00;56;49;07 - 00;57;00;21
MURRAY
Is if he had a stash of weapons there that he was counting on also. Yeah. And now it's blown up. And so he's got to scramble a little bit to try to maybe get to his other stance that would.

00;57;00;21 - 00;57;02;26
JON
Have been funny, like he blew up his stash. Yeah, he's got it.

00;57;02;29 - 00;57;14;12
MURRAY
So he's like, Yeah, he's like, Well, then we have to get across town like with like 3:10 to you like because that's what they're going for, right? three, ten to Yuma and a little bit of high noon. A little bit of um.

00;57;14;29 - 00;57;28;17
MURRAY
Was it open range like with this big, huge town filled shootout? But the problem is that those even, I think, probably open range had like the longest one, maybe, and that was still maybe like 20 minutes out of a two hour something movie.

00;57;28;26 - 00;57;46;18
MURRAY
It's like any shootout for 45 minutes, no matter how many westerns and monster movies that you reference is going to get stale and spin its wheels. So it's like they should have just had an actual episode. And then the last ten minutes of the episode be like this.

00;57;46;18 - 00;57;56;06
MURRAY
three tend to Yuma like crazy, like bonkers thing because. They're going for Battle of the Bastards type vibe, but they just can't pull it off.

00;57;56;22 - 00;58;19;09
JOSH
This whole conversation, just something I've been thinking about the past few days, is the impact COVID may have had on the production and the length of the show. Because I know the most recent season of Doctor who was shortened to six episodes and like within the scaled back version, they even had a few episodes that they had

00;58;19;09 - 00;58;21;18
JOSH
to cut. I'm wondering if.

00;58;21;26 - 00;58;23;04
MURRAY
That makes a lot of sense here.

00;58;23;09 - 00;58;37;18
JOSH
I'm wondering if all this stuff that seems like it was supposed to go somewhere, it was seated. I wonder if what we're seeing is the result of a production that had to adapt to COVID and had to do the best they could.

00;58;37;20 - 00;58;39;08
RUSS
It's not going to say, yeah.

00;58;40;16 - 00;58;51;11
MURRAY
No, but like maybe there are some things are unanswered because they're like, Oh, we'll pick. Well, we can make this storyline. Follow this storyline out of all the stuff we have to do.

00;58;51;12 - 00;58;53;25
JOSH
The plot is the only thing that we can service.

00;58;53;26 - 00;58;55;10
MURRAY
That said that, that was the plot.

00;58;55;10 - 00;58;55;25
Speaker 3
But yeah.

00;58;58;14 - 00;59;12;03
JON
Just thinking about the show as we're talking about it and thinking about someone like Cobb Vanth and thinking about some of the ideas you guys are spinning now, I kind of feel like the entire show should have been instead of Boba Fett.

00;59;12;03 - 00;59;26;15
JON
It should have been Cobb death, and he should've been the one cleaning up the town. And then instead of CAD Bane, it should have been Boba Fett who shows up looking for his armor. And then Cobb would have Boba Fett's armor and have to fight off Boba Fett, who would be the bad guy.

00;59;26;24 - 00;59;43;27
JON
And then, you know, it happened where he gets the armor at the end or he doesn't get the armor. But I Cobb Vanth, when he says that Boba Fett, you know, like this is my people, it's like, you would believe it, because that's the guy that Boba Fett is trying to emulate in a weird way.

00;59;43;28 - 00;59;58;06
JON
It's like even though they don't know each other. And so it's just like everything, like it's the borrowed ideas because it's like, OK, everything that we thought Boba Fett was going to be. That's Mando. Everything that the China make Boba Fett now.

00;59;58;06 - 01;00;13;01
JON
Well, that's Cobb. That's he's already doing it in Freetown. So it's like they haven't quite still given Boba his own little corner of a character. Is it Michael Corleone's like they made it too much like a Western? It's not really like a godfather thing.

01;00;13;01 - 01;00;27;12
JON
They should have gone something in a different angle. It should have made it Khorasan instead of just one reference here. Like, yeah, just like but they should have made it more distinct. And instead, he's like, he's a he's a pastiche of other Star Wars characters, which is weird because he came first.

01;00;27;23 - 01;00;31;26
JOSH
Yeah, but you can't. You can't market a show called the Book of Cobb Vanth. So, so.

01;00;32;01 - 01;00;34;15
JON
Well, they kind of call it like Lone Star or something.

01;00;34;15 - 01;00;35;06
Speaker 3
Like that. Yeah, and.

01;00;35;18 - 01;00;36;16
MURRAY
In the galaxy or.

01;00;36;16 - 01;00;40;26
JON
Something. Yeah. And have them be like an actual straight up western, you know? And that would've been cool.

01;00;41;00 - 01;00;49;01
JOSH
You just reminded me that scene where he sends out the twilight majordomo guy and he's like, I'm from Carson. I don't know if you could tell by the accent like.

01;00;49;01 - 01;00;52;05
Speaker 3
Blah blah blah. But that was a funny line.

01;00;52;11 - 01;01;05;18
RUSS
I think they addressed more fan concerns like I think we even talked about like, why is this? Or you guys it mentioned, like, why is he speaking like that? Like, a lot of these quips were definitely like written in later in the rumor mill, which a lot of it turned out not to be true about this episode

01;01;05;18 - 01;01;17;16
RUSS
. A lot of speculation was going on online, on Twitter, on YouTube. I think I think something they've said is there were a lot of reshoots maybe to fill in some gaps and there are a lot of last minute reshoots even for this episode.

01;01;17;21 - 01;01;34;00
RUSS
Don't know if that's true or not, but I feel like a lot of things were were responding to the fans. As Mickey was saying, it's like, you know, we live in a time where shows are trying their best to make everyone happy and and, you know, plug all these holes in and try to come out on top

01;01;34;00 - 01;01;37;14
RUSS
. And so, yeah, I feel like they could have been a response to some of that, particularly that.

01;01;37;14 - 01;01;41;00
JON
Night. They would have been shooting that recently, but you never know, I guess.

01;01;41;01 - 01;01;43;05
Speaker 3
No, I mean, you like like I think like.

01;01;43;05 - 01;01;47;11
JOSH
Like there are some things that are certainly responses to to.

01;01;47;12 - 01;01;49;03
RUSS
Cobb living, I think even.

01;01;49;13 - 01;01;50;29
Speaker 3
Well, no, I think no, no.

01;01;50;29 - 01;01;52;00
MURRAY
He was serious at the level.

01;01;52;00 - 01;01;55;05
JON
Of the choreography of that. He really gets through shoulder.

01;01;55;05 - 01;01;59;01
Speaker 3
Yeah, yeah. You see, I decide it's like he would've been cool.

01;01;59;01 - 01;02;02;02
JON
They didn't show him actually dead. You know, it's like.

01;02;02;04 - 01;02;02;17
Speaker 3
But another.

01;02;02;17 - 01;02;05;26
JOSH
Thing could be, I mean, once again, the production reality is, how many days do you.

01;02;05;27 - 01;02;07;03
JON
Get Timothy Olyphant?

01;02;07;04 - 01;02;08;10
Speaker 3
Yeah, like true. Yeah.

01;02;08;23 - 01;02;09;13
JON
It's very true.

01;02;09;15 - 01;02;20;08
JOSH
one of the things that they keep saying about the show is that they're getting all these really great actors to do like, you know, one offs because it's really easy for them. Like they they shoot in L.A. and they're not on location.

01;02;20;08 - 01;02;25;19
JOSH
It's all in the volume or on the backlot. And like you show up for a couple of days, then you're in Star Wars.

01;02;25;20 - 01;02;37;00
MURRAY
It would have been cool if he, like, showed up in the battle, though, and he was just like, Yeah, got one, not one arm. Like he lost his arm, but like, you know, like in a sling, like, just like having to.

01;02;37;00 - 01;02;37;22
MURRAY
I don't know what.

01;02;38;04 - 01;02;40;21
JOSH
This will have. Thundercat showed up again. That was cool. Mickey?

01;02;41;14 - 01;02;52;15
MICKEY
Yeah, it's kind of going to James saying, I just realizing like this idea of, like, had that last. But then you don't make Boba Fett the bad guy. You do the good, the bad, the ugly advances, the good, the ugly and bane is.

01;02;52;23 - 01;02;54;27
MICKEY
Yeah, and that's your show right there.

01;02;55;13 - 01;02;56;17
Speaker 3
There you go.

01;02;56;19 - 01;02;57;01
MICKEY
Yeah.

01;02;57;15 - 01;02;58;21
RUSS
But better show.

01;02;59;01 - 01;03;04;06
MICKEY
And I think I said this last week, I'm kind of disappointed at Vance wasn't in the shoot like they could have done of like in Elmo, was it? Who was it?

01;03;05;00 - 01;03;07;16
Speaker 3
David Cross was the one of the best characters in.

01;03;07;16 - 01;03;19;03
MICKEY
The bed, and he was like, you know, doing something like that. But I do like speaking of like the West. Like, I took some notes on like some like riffs on it that I did that I enjoyed. Like, I kind of think that maybe they were doing something with that Twilight character theme from like and they said

01;03;19;03 - 01;03;27;29
MICKEY
, Oh, from the chorus night where it's like, it's almost like a Western is the lawyer from the big city. I'm coming from New York out to the West to feel like maybe they were kind of riffing on that a little bit.

01;03;29;01 - 01;03;37;06
MICKEY
I appreciate like the The Good Morning Guard's got done dirty socks for them, but that was a nice shot with the tram and the train exposure when they get that thing back.

01;03;37;08 - 01;03;38;01
Speaker 3
Yeah. Yes.

01;03;38;02 - 01;03;40;03
MICKEY
Yes. Yeah. You know, that shot was a good shot.

01;03;40;03 - 01;03;47;10
RUSS
You remember that camera and guard that it's like fell in into the red carpet. And I like that they've never been great on their feet like gravity.

01;03;47;28 - 01;03;49;16
Speaker 3
And then the other thing I guess we like it.

01;03;50;17 - 01;03;56;07
MICKEY
Is that the the droids totally like a gaten gun situation from like a like a western that takes place in like the 1890s.

01;03;56;07 - 01;03;56;14
MURRAY
Like.

01;03;56;14 - 01;03;57;28
MICKEY
Django thought the gas gun. You're like.

01;03;58;01 - 01;03;59;01
Speaker 3
Oh, thank you.

01;03;59;01 - 01;03;59;27
MURRAY
Cheers here, Django.

01;03;59;29 - 01;04;08;22
MICKEY
You know these four? Yeah, exactly. Yeah, which is actually kind of reason like something I'm thinking about this show that I feel like maybe the writers are playing around with his ideas, like they're kind of playing with the concept.

01;04;08;22 - 01;04;19;27
MICKEY
I think of changing times within Star Wars. That Return of the Jedi is done. The Empire is falling like, you know, I think that that's why I like the the Naboo Starfighter has these like 1950s. It's like, that's what they were doing.

01;04;19;27 - 01;04;31;16
MICKEY
Muscle cars were like taking the fifties cars right and Super Nemo. Yeah, you know, that's why the mods, there's like these different subcultures developing and things like that. And I feel like they didn't do a good job of saying, here's a theme to a show or anything like that.

01;04;31;16 - 01;04;42;07
MICKEY
But but if there is something where they are at least hinting at, I feel like it's this idea of like a changing galaxy or something, which again fits into like, my favorite westerns are the ones that take place in 1886, you know, 1890s, 1900s.

01;04;42;07 - 01;04;44;26
MICKEY
Whereas that, like West, meets the future No.

01;04;44;26 - 01;05;04;28
JOSH
100% and that's what most westerns are about. What they have to say about the change is usually reflective of the period in which it was made. So you have a, you know, a certain kind of western in the forties, another kind of western in the fifties and then the deconstruction and the questioning of all that in the

01;05;04;28 - 01;05;16;14
JOSH
sixties. But it's all utilizing that period between the end of the Civil War and the end of the 19th century. It's that, like the times are changing sort of thing.

01;05;16;21 - 01;05;29;06
MICKEY
And I think something pressing with that too is kind of thing about this being it's riffing on all those westerns and all those different westerns. And again, it's this idea time it kind of like I was reading something about like, you know, Mark Marc Fisher talking about like the condensation of time that we're kind of in this

01;05;29;06 - 01;05;38;22
MICKEY
period where like music from the seventies, eighties and nineties, you don't know it doesn't matter anymore. Kids listen to everything, and it's almost like these kind of Star Wars like, you know, if you're talking about pastiche, it's pastiche and everything.

01;05;38;22 - 01;05;44;02
MICKEY
And it could be like in this point of like, we're in a period of culture where like, like, it's all been condensed now.

01;05;44;17 - 01;05;58;00
JOSH
That's true. That's actually true. And you can even argue Star Wars is kind of the beginning of that. Like, you know, the original Star Wars, like, was the first in my mind. I mean, in some ways and obviously like this is wrong.

01;05;58;00 - 01;06;18;10
JOSH
Even saying the term postmodern is is a whole can of worms. But for lack of a better term, you could look at the original Star Wars as the first piece of of postmodern popular culture where it's consciously invoking discarded pieces of pop culture and putting them together to make something new.

01;06;18;25 - 01;06;22;17
MICKEY
Right? Star Wars and Indiana Jones at the same time. The 12 punch?

01;06;22;19 - 01;06;34;11
JOSH
Yeah. Yeah, so, so and then now what we're seeing in Star Wars is it's like that to the Max, and sometimes you even get Star Wars. That's about old Star Wars. Like, that's another genre that they're riffing on as well.

01;06;34;12 - 01;06;37;17
JOSH
They're riffing on. Yeah, kinds of Star Wars.

01;06;38;14 - 01;06;47;27
JON
It's it's music has been like, I feel like for decades where you get a band and like, Oh, they sound like this band, so well, they actually that band sounds like this band's like it happens. And then you go back to like 1962.

01;06;47;28 - 01;06;58;03
JON
You're like, Oh, all these bands on like this band and it's like, and they're just riffing on the last thing. Almost not quite realizing the source material.

01;06;58;23 - 01;07;03;18
JOSH
Mickey, is there a particular Mark Fisher essay you think that we could link to in the show notes?

01;07;04;01 - 01;07;10;16
MICKEY
Yeah, I can look for that. That's a specific one. I know that condensation of time thing. It's yeah, I'll look for.

01;07;10;16 - 01;07;23;06
JOSH
That because I think that would be a good thing to put in, the show notes. I think it actually is very apt for Star Wars and what we're seeing now with Peak TV and the Star Wars version of that in particular.

01;07;23;06 - 01;07;35;17
MURRAY
I think the the issue with that, because if done wrong, I feel like you kind of get the book of Boba Fett where it's like a hat on a hat rather than, like, done well. I love it. It's just, yeah, you know what I'm saying?

01;07;35;17 - 01;07;41;01
MURRAY
Like, that's what it just seems like. It's just, yeah, right? It's too it's.

01;07;41;01 - 01;07;47;15
JOSH
Doing too many things, and it adds up to less than if you just chose a couple of things. Yeah, just made.

01;07;47;17 - 01;08;03;01
MURRAY
Yeah. If you wanted to be like a cowboy space cowboy. Like space Western like samurai thing like do that, but don't be like, I want to be a space movie. Every Western that's ever been. And then, you know, I think.

01;08;03;10 - 01;08;18;03
RUSS
Well, let me ask. Well, let me ask you this. That being said, based on the mistakes that some of us may have perceived were made in this and in the show, some of us, what would you say? Like what?

01;08;18;03 - 01;08;29;17
RUSS
What have we learned? What? What should someone making future Star Wars learn from this show to not repeat or to try differently to be constructive for me? See? Constructive?

01;08;30;13 - 01;08;30;27
Speaker 3
No, I.

01;08;31;27 - 01;08;33;06
JOSH
I'm very proud of your rescue.

01;08;33;18 - 01;08;34;14
Speaker 3
I'm growing up.

01;08;34;20 - 01;08;35;05
JON
You, Russ.

01;08;35;05 - 01;08;35;23
Speaker 3
Fuck you.

01;08;36;01 - 01;08;37;10
RUSS
I'm a lot do.

01;08;37;10 - 01;08;38;09
MURRAY
Worse than polio.

01;08;41;07 - 01;08;42;13
JON
Bring it back. Always bring it back.

01;08;42;23 - 01;08;59;11
JOSH
I think that the creative team that's responsible for the Book of Boba Fett was the same creative team that was responsible for The Mandalorian. And it's just you have to you can't spread them too thin. You have to give them the time to do their thing and make them distinctive.

01;08;59;12 - 01;09;16;06
JOSH
I'm very confident saying I feel like Kenobi is going to have a distinct identity and feel and will have a clear through line. I hope I'm not going to eat my own words when we see it. I don't think I'm going to because Deborah Chow, who is directed Kenobi, is fantastic.

01;09;16;06 - 01;09;29;05
JOSH
So I think the lesson is if you're going to make this many shows, you need to not spread your creative teams too thin and they have to have a voice and a point of view come through and you have to let them do it.

01;09;29;07 - 01;09;30;16
Speaker 3
And so my guide.

01;09;31;00 - 01;09;46;02
JON
To what you were saying about COVID having an effect in the book of both that COVID actually had an effect Adobe one, because I think even Ewan McGregor or somebody said that when they had to shut everything down, it gave them more time to develop the scripts to the point where they actually really liked it.

01;09;47;11 - 01;09;58;21
JON
So when they had their scripts, they were delaying it because of script problems and then COVID happened, and it was just like, Well, this is actually a boon, because now we have all this time to develop our scripts to the.

01;09;58;21 - 01;10;00;13
RUSS
Well, that's the problem. They don't have to stand.

01;10;00;13 - 01;10;00;25
JON
Behind.

01;10;00;25 - 01;10;02;08
Speaker 3
It, right? Their big.

01;10;02;09 - 01;10;16;19
RUSS
Brush. And I see that I understand, like, that's like, that's just what it's going to be from from like the corporate angle, whatever company is doing it like, you have bottom lines, you have deadlines, they're pushing too much Star Wars too fast.

01;10;16;26 - 01;10;32;06
RUSS
And the sequel trilogy was a victim of that mentality where they they didn't have a plan for for all three. And and I really think it suffered. And I think this show is the TV version of the sequel trilogy problem, where it's like, we really didn't have a plan.

01;10;32;11 - 01;10;35;21
RUSS
It's going to be Boba Fett can't go wrong there. Everyone loves Boba Fett.

01;10;36;02 - 01;10;37;19
JOSH
I mean, basically, I think that's what happened.

01;10;37;19 - 01;10;39;14
RUSS
Yeah, and and I think it's I.

01;10;39;17 - 01;10;40;19
JON
Thought it was a sure bet.

01;10;40;28 - 01;10;58;08
RUSS
Yeah. And and I really think fans are willing to wait as long as it takes for something to be good. I really I really do that think that the board, the board members, on the other hand, that they're there, their bank accounts need to need to fill with a flood of cash in revenue.

01;10;58;17 - 01;11;06;09
RUSS
So I really think that's, you know, you can't, you know, the intersection of art and commerce. It's really the sad, unfortunate truth of Star Wars.

01;11;06;25 - 01;11;08;26
JOSH
No. And especially now because of.

01;11;08;26 - 01;11;09;12
Speaker 3
The.

01;11;09;22 - 01;11;30;27
JOSH
The the wars between the streaming platforms, whenever a new Marvel show or a new Star Wars show drops, the subscription numbers on Disney Plus skyrocket. And then there's also the issue of subscription retention, like the people who who sign up and then cancel, and then they don't re-up until another Star Wars show is out, right?

01;11;30;28 - 01;11;48;25
JOSH
Something very similar is happening with Star Trek on Paramount. Plus, there's new Star Trek year-round, and it's the same strategy because you have people who are signing up to see the new Star Trek and then canceling. They wait until, like, right before the season finale and they re-up their subscription and and they binge the whole thing.

01;11;49;01 - 01;12;01;02
JOSH
So the only way to survive now is to show your memberships are increasing, increasing, increasing. It's I mean not to get off on a whole thing about capitalism here, but there's something insane about the idea.

01;12;01;02 - 01;12;02;20
Speaker 3
That, oh, that do it off.

01;12;03;14 - 01;12;09;09
JOSH
There's something insane that the only acceptable outcome is continual growth.

01;12;09;09 - 01;12;19;00
MICKEY
And it's the inherent like it's called it the inherent capitalism because it needs it. And it's possible. And that's why our world burning right now if we run out of resources.

01;12;19;11 - 01;12;20;12
JON
Yes, honestly.

01;12;20;21 - 01;12;24;03
MURRAY
Well, is going to watch avocado toast is the problem. Yeah, that.

01;12;24;25 - 01;12;29;15
JON
I don't want to go off too much on a tangent, either. I did see an article about doing Russ's chaotic.

01;12;30;00 - 01;12;35;20
Speaker 3
Neutral, chaotic evil. I don't know where you are. Depends how much.

01;12;35;24 - 01;12;36;26
MURRAY
Line is left in that.

01;12;37;06 - 01;12;42;24
Speaker 3
But how a line is left? It changes. Yeah. Sorry, guys. Sorry, Jessica.

01;12;43;08 - 01;12;59;11
JON
Netflix had an article about how there's an article about Netflix basically losing money because they made so much money when the pandemic hit because everyone's at home. And then now that, like things are getting better, they're losing subscribers, so they're like desperately trying to hold on to like, how can we hold on to these subscribers?

01;13;00;08 - 01;13;02;10
Speaker 3
Yeah, it's so it's good show, fucking.

01;13;02;17 - 01;13;12;09
JON
Yeah. And it's also crazy. And with the capitalist thing, this is my last thing. I was talking to us, talking to my friend on Instagram.

01;13;12;09 - 01;13;13;08
MURRAY
Don't have any friends.

01;13;13;13 - 01;13;13;25
JON
I know.

01;13;14;05 - 01;13;14;23
Speaker 3
Jon.

01;13;15;11 - 01;13;25;29
JON
I was getting these Instagram ads about like, how to be a billionaire. You know, it's like, Oh, if you've got this percentage of your money, like, invest in crypto, I'm like, What the fuck? Who do they think I am?

01;13;25;29 - 01;13;37;28
JON
And then like, and then I was like, Whatever happened to like, we're old men now. But like, whatever happened to those advertisements was like, Would you like to go to Paris? You should go take a cruise to the Bahamas or whatever and like, it's like, just go on vacation.

01;13;38;07 - 01;13;45;18
JON
That was like the dream. And now the dream is like each and every one of you can make a your own space rocket and go to the moon and like, I think it's getting out of.

01;13;45;18 - 01;13;49;15
Speaker 3
Control if you go to right. I mean, when it's always been.

01;13;49;15 - 01;13;50;13
JOSH
Out of control, but.

01;13;50;13 - 01;13;56;03
MURRAY
With like hobbies and stuff that we like doing, the main thing that people wonder.

01;13;56;10 - 01;13;57;07
JOSH
Is monetizing.

01;13;57;07 - 01;13;59;26
MURRAY
How to monetize it. Just like drive hijacking bonkers.

01;13;59;26 - 01;14;00;06
JOSH
Yeah.

01;14;00;09 - 01;14;12;29
MURRAY
I just want to do stuff and have fun. And I'm like, you know, like I stream on Twitch and people like, Oh, you make a lot of money with, that's what do you make of every few months you get like 100 bucks or something like that, but it's not like, that's not why, like, I have hobbies for

01;14;12;29 - 01;14;17;28
MURRAY
the sake of fucking having hobbies, like why does everything have to be a grind like it's it's so.

01;14;17;29 - 01;14;18;14
JOSH
I.

01;14;18;14 - 01;14;19;10
Speaker 3
Annoying man.

01;14;19;17 - 01;14;24;02
JON
But I do want to answer Russell's question, and I think I think Murray was going to go for it.

01;14;24;06 - 01;14;26;18
MURRAY
I was going to answer Russell's question. I think.

01;14;26;24 - 01;14;27;24
JON
I want to respond and.

01;14;27;24 - 01;14;30;05
MURRAY
Should something Josh was saying, so he should go.

01;14;30;06 - 01;14;33;13
Speaker 3
first. We already learned.

01;14;33;13 - 01;14;34;09
RUSS
What have we learned is the.

01;14;34;09 - 01;14;39;24
MURRAY
Question. Yeah. So when you go, when you're going back to that, then hit me up. But I think everybody else reaches chaos.

01;14;40;02 - 01;14;45;09
JOSH
I have. It's all falling apart at the end, guys. I was doing so good at juggling things and now it's just all a no.

01;14;45;09 - 01;14;47;26
MURRAY
Go Mick because Mickey was responding to something you said.

01;14;47;26 - 01;14;52;10
MICKEY
And saying We're talking about like, where's my cut of this, by the way, now that we're bringing up capitalism?

01;14;54;17 - 01;14;55;00
Speaker 3
Oh.

01;14;57;01 - 01;14;59;18
JOSH
As soon as there's something as soon as like, Oh my friend.

01;14;59;19 - 01;15;10;14
MICKEY
We were talking about, like, it's it's I just think that this honestly, I think this model like Netflix like that was a cool thing when it was like Netflix. And now that cable's die and we've done as. I don't think it's sustainable.

01;15;10;14 - 01;15;23;26
MICKEY
I think we're going to see these platforms just demolish. And then the worst thing that's going to happen is that and it's already happening like, you know, there was like Twitter discourse. I think it's always going on. But I noticed this week that it's like there's so much that's not even like you can stream anything.

01;15;23;26 - 01;15;35;16
MICKEY
And there's just things that aren't on streaming, because in the end, it's like, you think like when Netflix started streaming things like, I remember when we were in college, I'm like, Oh, like, give it a couple of years and I can just watch any movie I want ever at a click of a button.

01;15;35;26 - 01;15;38;04
MICKEY
And it's gone the opposite. It's harder to find movies.

01;15;38;04 - 01;15;39;28
Speaker 3
Yeah, it's harder. Really can't.

01;15;39;28 - 01;15;52;05
JOSH
It's right? Yeah. Because of because of the licensing. And now when everyone all of a sudden realizes the future is streaming, they wanted to get their own platform so they wouldn't license their money to Netflix to make money off their content.

01;15;52;06 - 01;16;12;08
JOSH
Then all of a sudden, we have these warring streaming platforms and it's like. I mean, sure, like, there'll be some schadenfreude when, like Netflix acquires Peacock or something, but like, Oh, but that's what's going to happen. It'll be consolidation, and we'll end up with like two or three main services.

01;16;12;08 - 01;16;14;15
JOSH
And it'll be like the old days where like, you don't have.

01;16;14;15 - 01;16;14;26
Speaker 3
A choice.

01;16;15;16 - 01;16;16;18
JON
Of ABC.

01;16;16;19 - 01;16;18;03
Speaker 3
Yeah, yeah. But that was.

01;16;19;08 - 01;16;28;06
MICKEY
Like and the point, maybe with this Star Wars show, it's like just because you can doesn't mean you have to, but they do have to because they need content and specifically the bring it back to bring it back to this episode.

01;16;28;14 - 01;16;41;26
MICKEY
I don't know who else thought this, but like when I actually kind of like like the whole like, it's a cowboy thing. And then we had the like the dinosaur rancor thing going on and specific cause. I just really brought that great moment with Yoda putting the Marine Corps to sleep.

01;16;42;02 - 01;16;42;20
MICKEY
Thought that was?

01;16;42;25 - 01;16;43;03
Speaker 3
I love.

01;16;43;14 - 01;16;43;27
MICKEY
The highlight.

01;16;43;27 - 01;16;45;26
JON
Of this year with me.

01;16;46;21 - 01;16;47;14
Speaker 3
But I was, Oh my.

01;16;47;14 - 01;16;47;26
MURRAY
God, that.

01;16;47;26 - 01;16;53;02
MICKEY
Was something that was cute. That was cute. But but was anyone else thinking he might eat them or style?

01;16;53;03 - 01;16;54;02
Speaker 3
No, that's.

01;16;54;02 - 01;16;57;02
MICKEY
That's what I was. I was just going to start trying to, like, go near blurring.

01;16;57;03 - 01;17;00;03
MURRAY
But he had the I thought for a second. I thought he might.

01;17;00;03 - 01;17;01;27
JOSH
Yadda yadda would eat the rancor.

01;17;02;07 - 01;17;03;06
MICKEY
Yeah, that's what I yeah.

01;17;03;08 - 01;17;08;23
Speaker 3
Oh shit. Oh shit, I want to like I've seen that. It's like a character trait the whole time.

01;17;09;06 - 01;17;12;06
JOSH
Murray, then Jon. And then I would like to wrap up.

01;17;12;27 - 01;17;18;01
MURRAY
So my answer to what did we learn from it? Just for me, it.

01;17;18;02 - 01;17;18;28
JON
Doesn't make it better.

01;17;18;28 - 01;17;39;11
MURRAY
Yeah, yeah. Just can't care about story. first and foremost, story and characters which are kind of intertwined. Fuck work like all that, like everything needs to an Easter egg, everything needs to be a wink at the camera. Every old character that's ever been thought of needs to walk across the screen at one point and all.

01;17;39;11 - 01;17;52;16
MURRAY
That's just fit that stuff in when you can stop making shows and episodes based solely around it and tell your right your full story. Be like. I don't know. Just like.

01;17;53;10 - 01;17;55;11
RUSS
If you make it good, your piece.

01;17;55;11 - 01;18;08;21
MURRAY
To your story. And just like that's the only thing that matters and then fill in all the that a crucial moment like afterwards, like you're putting it together, you can like, Oh, let's you know.

01;18;09;01 - 01;18;15;23
RUSS
Yeah, if you do a good story, you'll you'll make new fans and make old fans happy. And that's what that's what they're missing.

01;18;15;24 - 01;18;28;19
JOSH
I mean, first of all, Murray spoken like a true writer. It's all about story character. But what do you do with The Last Jedi, where I think all of the answers we have given apply to The Last Jedi?

01;18;28;19 - 01;18;32;24
JOSH
Yet that was the most divisive movie of them all.

01;18;32;25 - 01;18;34;09
JON
That's a chance you have to take it.

01;18;34;18 - 01;18;35;13
Speaker 3
So it's a huge.

01;18;35;18 - 01;18;40;16
MURRAY
Gamble for me. Last Jedi, this doesn't tank the whole.

01;18;40;16 - 01;18;46;19
Speaker 3
Movie, but I don't know. I don't want to go down this. You brought it up. I know. Oh my god, there's so many.

01;18;46;19 - 01;19;00;28
MURRAY
Things I love about it. If if they just did something better with Leia in space and if they'd got rid of Casino Planet, I understand what they were going for with the Casino Planet. But I'm like that that those two moments are what I was like.

01;19;00;28 - 01;19;11;20
MURRAY
What the fuck am I watching right now? Like, what is happening like? But that should that ruin the movie for me? No, it should. Like, I'm not that much of like, intense, like, oh, don't ever take any risk.

01;19;11;20 - 01;19;14;24
MURRAY
But for me, I was just like, What is this? This is just silly.

01;19;15;12 - 01;19;29;03
JOSH
So, I mean, number one, the last thing worked for me. The other thing, though, is that in order to do what we're all talking about, you need to risk failure. Yeah, it's not always. It's not always going to work.

01;19;29;20 - 01;19;45;28
JOSH
There's a Venn diagram of Star Wars fans. There are fans of movies and there are Star Wars fans. And sometimes to make a good movie, you have to piss off some Star Wars fans and sometimes to please Star Wars fans.

01;19;45;28 - 01;20;01;05
JOSH
You you have to make a movie that does not really hold up to someone who not a Star Wars fan. And it's sort of like, I don't know, this is something I was going to do a whole episode about, but why not just, you know, throw it away in a sentence at the end of another one?

01;20;01;24 - 01;20;02;01
JON
Yeah.

01;20;02;10 - 01;20;03;03
Speaker 3
So they could do this.

01;20;03;08 - 01;20;04;17
MURRAY
So, yeah, it's a teaser.

01;20;04;18 - 01;20;15;03
JOSH
Yeah. Like, if you have to choose between a good movie or a good Star Wars movie, those aren't always the same thing. I mean, they can be. But if more times.

01;20;15;03 - 01;20;16;08
MURRAY
Than not, it's not.

01;20;16;16 - 01;20;18;15
Speaker 3
Right. Yeah. So if you go by the numbers.

01;20;19;03 - 01;20;33;25
JOSH
So, but if you have to choose one, I mean, there was a time where, you know, Star Wars was a series of films and not this whole intertwined mythology and the way you make a good movie is you have a story worth being told.

01;20;33;29 - 01;20;47;15
JOSH
And to do that, you cannot keep things in status. You have to move forward, you have to make choices, you have to play things out in a real and honest and true way, and you have to have something to say.

01;20;47;16 - 01;21;09;12
JOSH
And not everyone will like what you say. And I think that the problem we're in now is because Star Wars no longer has that single unifying creative voice. Regardless of whether you liked everything that voice said and George Lucas, there was still a guiding principle beyond, OK, we have to make more Star Wars because there.

01;21;09;12 - 01;21;16;12
MURRAY
Was like the god of the galaxy, like for the better thing. Like, Yeah, it was like his creation. So he knew, like.

01;21;16;12 - 01;21;17;14
Speaker 3
Right out.

01;21;17;15 - 01;21;30;21
JOSH
Right? So now the best we can do. And again, I'm going to I'm going to say this. I think the problem a lot of people have with The Last Jedi is that because there wasn't a plan for the sequel trilogy, Rian Jonson was in a position where he was kind of left to his own devices.

01;21;30;21 - 01;21;37;07
JOSH
And he he did. The most interesting version of what he had was he had what he was given right.

01;21;37;18 - 01;21;41;23
MURRAY
And some of the best Star Wars in it. Don't get me wrong, like, it's incredible.

01;21;41;28 - 01;21;55;19
JON
The thing is, is that Star Wars used to be special, and now it's not. And I don't mean that in quality. I just mean that. And then like, you would have to wait 20 years for a Star Wars movie and three years in between, like if there's a trilogy, three years in between every movie and now it's

01;21;55;19 - 01;22;11;09
JON
like Star Wars every year. one of the big reasons why I think Solo fell apart was because it came out six months after The Last Jedi. Like, do we have Star Wars fatigue? And it's like, it's just like everything else, and it shouldn't be that way to answer Russell's question more specifically.

01;22;13;13 - 01;22;26;28
JON
Motivation, like like what Josh was saying, it's like, why are you making the show? You need to. You need to give the characters a reason to exist and a reason to do what they're doing. Actions are louder than words.

01;22;27;06 - 01;22;41;03
JON
But even then, I feel like with Boba Fett, they barely even had the words as well. You know, and it's just like he's supposed to be the man of the people. And then they kind of show that like, like Josh was like, episode two.

01;22;41;03 - 01;22;54;05
JON
I got it. He's a man of the people. So you're right. And then they dropped it, and they're still five more episodes after that. And it's like, Dude, the whole show should have been him. Like, Yeah, hanging out with like the the fucking like moisture farmers.

01;22;54;05 - 01;23;05;19
JON
And like, this is really the salt of the Earth people of Mos Esper and have them actually like him and like. But instead, he's like, All right, I'm a Tusken now. No, not. I'm going to hire some goons to be my gang.

01;23;05;19 - 01;23;19;22
JON
And it's like, Yeah, the show became about. The show was I was like seven episodes of like a job interview. It's like being like, OK, you seem like you're big and hairy, OK, you can join my team. You kids have some best buddies, you're on my team.

01;23;19;22 - 01;23;38;29
JON
And it's like. But that's not character. That's just like, that's just like getting to from A to B and thinking about like the job. But like, there's nothing, there's nothing to that. And so I just think they needed to have more of a message and also to what Josh is also saying, like, well, what is the message

01;23;38;29 - 01;23;47;07
JON
of Boba Fett, you know, like what? At the end of the day, what was that show about? And I can't even tell you what that show's about.

01;23;47;16 - 01;23;50;12
JOSH
Yeah, I mean, it was kind of Star Wars for Star Wars sake, like it was.

01;23;50;12 - 01;23;51;27
Speaker 3
For the man. Yes. Yeah, it.

01;23;51;27 - 01;23;52;29
JON
Was. It was like, Oh.

01;23;53;05 - 01;23;54;28
Speaker 3
This is perfect. Yeah.

01;23;55;12 - 01;24;13;01
JON
And like, like Mando, that's a guy who's like finding family and purpose. You know, he was like, Here's a guy adrift in the world, Luke Skywalker. That's a kid who's discovering the great unknown and going on his first adventure and becoming like a man, Anakin Skywalker.

01;24;13;10 - 01;24;25;11
JON
That's the the downfall of, like, not thinking ahead and then getting too caught up in your own passions and not seeing the bigger picture of what's what you're doing can be wrong, even though you have the best of intentions.

01;24;25;19 - 01;24;30;15
JON
And like, I guess with like it's like, where were the ideas?

01;24;30;19 - 01;24;34;20
JOSH
Yeah, I mean, the idea is like, is a bad guy turning good? But we.

01;24;34;20 - 01;24;44;09
JON
Didn't. They didn't do it right? It's like, that's the thing like that. That was the idea. And it's like, Yeah, show me that. And they didn't show it. He's like, I'm a good guy. It's like, OK, I didn't.

01;24;44;16 - 01;25;02;20
JON
That's it. That was the show. And so I enjoyed the content. I enjoy the spectacle. I thought it was fun. You know, every episode, even with even my my biggest critiques, it still gave me joy to watch. But it was like it was like eating.

01;25;02;21 - 01;25;18;12
JON
It was like eating popcorn, you know? And like, it was just like, and I'm done with the bag and I threw the bag out. It's like, now I'm just I think I'd rather to answer your question, Josh. I'd rather have a good movie than another Star Wars and like, and I don't really want another Star Wars if

01;25;18;12 - 01;25;27;25
JON
they really try something and to go with The Last Jedi, they tried something. And as as Dustin Hoffman said in Inside the Actors Studio, he's like.

01;25;28;08 - 01;25;29;15
Speaker 3
Give me, 00.

01;25;29;21 - 01;25;36;09
JON
Give me, like, do something really bad. He's like, I don't want to see safe. Safe is boring. He's like, I want to see somebody try something and you're like.

01;25;36;15 - 01;25;37;04
Speaker 3
Oh.

01;25;37;06 - 01;25;43;29
JON
I can't believe he tried to do that. But like, sometimes when that happens, it hits it. When it hits, it goes like to the moon.

01;25;44;02 - 01;25;45;22
JOSH
You know, that's how you get to the Moon.

01;25;46;01 - 01;25;49;26
JON
Exactly. You got to really risk it to do something really great.

01;25;49;27 - 01;25;51;23
JOSH
Murray. And then I'd like to try to wrap up.

01;25;52;04 - 01;26;05;09
MURRAY
Yeah, no. I was just want to say actually something good about the episode was and it's it's Stanley is all about like the Mando stuff like I loved when he jetpack just to save Grogu from hitting.

01;26;05;14 - 01;26;06;11
JON
Him in mid-air.

01;26;06;11 - 01;26;22;17
MURRAY
Yeah, just like that was always like, cruel. So I love that and the whole idea of him not having any idea that it's even possible for Grogu to show up at the most dangerous place in all of tattooing in the moment and then adding that that onto it.

01;26;22;17 - 01;26;36;09
MURRAY
But I love I'm such a sucker for like valor and honor and stuff like that, like to the extent of like man in the Iron Mask, not a good movie. one of my favorite scenes of any movie of all time is when they're charging down that hallway to certain death.

01;26;36;10 - 01;26;54;15
MURRAY
I was like, I'll put that against anything but the movie, like, I don't even remember anything about it. So when when he is, you know, because I was also like, raised think about like your word is everything. Like, it's so like if you say you're going to do something you do like move heaven and Earth to try

01;26;54;15 - 01;27;06;29
MURRAY
to make that happen. So when he's like, All right, Mando, you could go and he's like, No, I told you, like, I'm going to be here. And he's like, In the fact that Boba Fett's like you, you still believe in all that trash.

01;27;07;08 - 01;27;19;08
MURRAY
And he's like, I do. And so Boba Fett's like, like, he's glad. Like, I'm glad that you believe. Even your cult religion, because that's saving my ass and then that long. Yeah, it's like, All right, well, I guess we're both going to die for honor.

01;27;19;08 - 01;27;32;23
MURRAY
Like that was like the best line in the whole series is like, I guess we're going to go and they they go out like, fuckin like Butch Cassidy and the gringo. Well, and and that's why I do love the use of the armor.

01;27;32;23 - 01;27;52;01
MURRAY
Like, I'm get like goosebumps now. Like, Oh my, yeah, like I love the the the use of the armor because it allowed them to like, get shot the shit like wild bunch, but still not do it like. So that was pressing like, oh no, they if if something doesn't happen right now, they are going to die because

01;27;52;05 - 01;28;03;17
MURRAY
eventually that armor, it's the lasers are going to hit somewhere else where like. So that was a cool thing that they could do. But yeah, when they were just like, we're like, Fuck it, I guess this is it like it's they don't think of like, No, we got this.

01;28;03;17 - 01;28;10;28
MURRAY
It's they literally go out to do as much damage. And maybe there's a chance in hell that they they both.

01;28;10;28 - 01;28;22;00
JON
Have nothing to lose at that point because at that point, he's like, he's like, Well, fuck it, this is the only ambition I had. And then with Mando Grogu in the good graces of Luke Skywalker's, yeah, it's like if I die, I die.

01;28;22;00 - 01;28;26;05
JON
And they're like, All right, let's go. Ask him like the way that we always are. Lethal Weapon for evil.

01;28;26;06 - 01;28;26;22
Speaker 3
Movies.

01;28;26;29 - 01;28;37;20
MURRAY
That are so, so me, me and Jonny have this ongoing thing that we do it the most when we're playing video games because we're like nerdier than just Star Wars, that we play like couch co-op and get really excited.

01;28;37;26 - 01;28;50;15
MURRAY
But again, like a bit a movie that's not like really that good with Lethal Weapon four. It's not horrible, but it's not that good. But we it's like probably our second most quoted movie is because we always go like, let's go ask them.

01;28;50;15 - 01;28;53;12
Speaker 3
Because that was the implication. Yeah, that makes them.

01;28;53;12 - 01;28;54;26
MURRAY
Selves to go fight.

01;28;54;29 - 01;28;57;20
JON
It's like generally at the end, like, how did he do that thing with the guns? Like.

01;28;58;09 - 01;28;59;28
JOSH
That's going to the West?

01;29;00;04 - 01;29;00;17
Speaker 3
Like that?

01;29;01;10 - 01;29;12;17
MURRAY
And that also sums up like my mindset like that and we're both going to die for honor are just like, Oh, that's me. In a nutshell. It's like, All right, I know this is not going to end well, but let's go ask them like, I don't.

01;29;12;17 - 01;29;14;23
JON
Want to highlight that was a highlight of the show.

01;29;15;11 - 01;29;23;08
JOSH
Mary, thank you for bringing me back from the edge. I was getting really bummed out, but you just you just lifted my my mood again.

01;29;23;22 - 01;29;24;13
Speaker 3
Well, we got.

01;29;24;13 - 01;29;38;14
JOSH
To a dark place. We go to a dark place. But that's yeah, I appreciate that there was some good in this and I enjoyed it. Overall, I thought it was a fun ride. Do you guys want to do this again on May 25th for Kenobi?

01;29;39;00 - 01;29;40;24
JON
Absolutely 100%.

01;29;40;25 - 01;29;44;08
MURRAY
Maybe we need you. We need the Heal Monkey.

01;29;44;16 - 01;29;45;16
JOSH
Yeah, we need to heal.

01;29;45;17 - 01;29;51;09
RUSS
I mean, I would watch it just to see how they deal with my tattooing fatigue.

01;29;51;19 - 01;29;53;03
JON
I'm not worried about it with Obi-Wan.

01;29;53;17 - 01;29;56;26
JOSH
No, me either. Because obviously he's got a I mean, anyway.

01;29;56;29 - 01;30;01;21
Speaker 3
Anyway, that's a whole other Photoshop episode. one of the other show.

01;30;02;04 - 01;30;08;27
JOSH
James, if you'd like to plug your socials and your pod, as one might do on a podcast.

01;30;09;07 - 01;30;10;16
JON
Oh, Jesus Christ.

01;30;10;21 - 01;30;11;07
Speaker 3
Now that's.

01;30;12;00 - 01;30;12;20
MURRAY
Plugging.

01;30;12;28 - 01;30;21;07
Speaker 3
The book Wolf. Yeah. Cool.

01;30;21;20 - 01;30;25;23
JOSH
James, where can we find you? And do you have anything you think people should check out?

01;30;26;00 - 01;30;42;20
JAMES
I have a podcast called The Secret Origins and Mint Condition, where me and my two co-hosts talk about pop culture, science fiction and anything you could talk about in a comic book store. We have an episode with with host Josh Talk and Star Trek, and we will have a Star Wars episode coming up soon.

01;30;42;23 - 01;30;57;11
JAMES
So I appreciate everyone to look at that. And then on Instagram, I have a art page jail art page on Instagram, where I do art from all pop culture. So if you could give that a look, I appreciate that as well.

01;30;57;12 - 01;31;05;00
JAMES
And I think I think that's that's enough enough plugging. That's probably good enough. So but thank you for the opportunity to plug all that stuff.

01;31;05;03 - 01;31;06;05
Speaker 3
I'm a plug for.

01;31;08;06 - 01;31;10;00
MURRAY
Someone's been looking at my browser history.

01;31;10;00 - 01;31;13;04
Speaker 3
Jim Murray.

01;31;13;04 - 01;31;27;14
MURRAY
Well, first, thanks for having me on this podcast. It's been a ton of fun and I was telling Jonny, like, I didn't really know where I stood because like, you have the EU and they know all the characters and everything, and I'm just up here being like, Oh, Jawad, texture or Harry, aren't they like?

01;31;27;22 - 01;31;28;03
Speaker 3
So I don't.

01;31;28;04 - 01;31;45;28
MURRAY
Know exactly where I fit in, but this has been like a ton of fun. And you know, I talk a lot about writing, if you want to see if my writing's worth a damn, I have one story published in an anthology that can only be found on Amazon, but it's it's rock and a hard place magazine.

01;31;45;28 - 01;31;49;13
MURRAY
It's Issue six and I have a story in there.

01;31;49;17 - 01;31;50;26
JOSH
And we'll link to it in the show notes.

01;31;50;28 - 01;32;03;03
MURRAY
Oh, thank you. And then I play video games on Twitch. So if you want to come, I'm not very like, I'm decent with it, but I you get to see me die a lot and make funny jokes about that.

01;32;03;23 - 01;32;19;26
MURRAY
So it's Twitch. That TV slash McCloud underscore strife at Twitch TV, but MacLeod is spelt like Highlander, so there. I hit the Canadian all one word, that's me on Instagram, Murray on Instagram, I hit the Canadian. It's an improved yeah, I'm going to.

01;32;20;04 - 01;32;25;15
MURRAY
It's an improved reference. So if you get it without me telling you, I had the Canadian.

01;32;25;26 - 01;32;27;01
JON
It's a lot of references right there.

01;32;27;25 - 01;32;35;22
JOSH
I know Russ, if people want more of your brand of your what you're dishing out, where can you be found.

01;32;35;22 - 01;32;49;10
RUSS
If they want to know what with the wine I've been drinking on all these episodes? Russ, the lush QCOM and also I think I'm Russell resolution, all my social media as well. It's mostly wine at the moment, but you know there'll be some.

01;32;49;10 - 01;32;50;07
JOSH
Other stuff in there.

01;32;50;08 - 01;32;56;12
RUSS
Yeah, but some of the media things and you know, that's that's where I'm drinking. I mean, where, where I'll be.

01;32;56;20 - 01;32;57;25
JOSH
And Jon, you.

01;32;57;25 - 01;32;59;12
JON
Wouldn't want to follow me this. It's actually quite.

01;32;59;26 - 01;33;04;18
Speaker 3
True that.

01;33;05;12 - 01;33;15;12
JON
I am an actor, though I just finished a feature recently and maybe that should come out during the summer. Boys, I'll let people know if that even comes to fruition.

01;33;16;04 - 01;33;22;14
JOSH
And Mickey, please plug your Twitter. I love you on Twitter. I think I've ever told you, but I really want you to plug your Twitter.

01;33;22;28 - 01;33;23;22
Speaker 3
I have no thank you.

01;33;23;25 - 01;33;34;10
MICKEY
I appreciate that. I've been tweeting more. So yeah, you can find me and I talk about movies and TV shows and labor and union stuff. So it's ET Stream.

01;33;34;14 - 01;33;35;03
Speaker 3
Film.

01;33;35;12 - 01;33;48;00
MICKEY
Suck. So it's streaming on an S.O.S. OK, it's supposed to be free. Stream Film Society was the thing I was going to do in like, oh, nine or something where I was going to like any time a movie went up on streaming, I was going to like, let people know and then I got lazy.

01;33;48;00 - 01;33;48;12
MICKEY
And then.

01;33;49;17 - 01;33;50;00
Speaker 3
I said.

01;33;50;05 - 01;33;51;23
MURRAY
Yeah, good luck doing that these days.

01;33;52;00 - 01;33;56;22
MICKEY
Yeah, yeah. I was like, it was like one of those things was like, Oh, this going to be? And then it's like, Oh, now everything's up. So I just gave up.

01;33;56;23 - 01;34;01;25
JOSH
So, oh, that's really funny, Micky, because I thought it had something to do with like socialism.

01;34;02;09 - 01;34;05;12
Speaker 3
It works now. Totally. Yeah, yeah. Now we're talking.

01;34;05;18 - 01;34;06;27
JOSH
It's like street socialism.

01;34;06;28 - 01;34;14;25
MICKEY
If you want to see my word scores, I actually do that on Instagram and my Instagram. Is Mickey Dobbyn under slash thing?

01;34;14;25 - 01;34;17;13
JON
Unofficial brass tacks? What's word Oscar? Yeah.

01;34;17;23 - 01;34;34;00
JOSH
Thank you for listening to the trash compactor. This was not intended to exist. This leg of the trash compactor journey. The official season one will be dropping in May of 2022, so we're going to be on hiatus for a little while.

01;34;34;01 - 01;34;49;10
JOSH
If you liked anything that you heard, please visit our website Trash Compered Dot Com, where you can read us and write reviews and please rate us and review us on Apple Podcasts or whatever platform you listen to. Podcasts on that will really help.

01;34;50;07 - 01;34;51;14
MURRAY
It really does it now to.

01;34;51;23 - 01;34;59;29
JOSH
Whatever platform, and we. Will. See you in May and I want to do this for Kenobi. I want to do this again.

01;34;59;29 - 01;35;00;16
MURRAY
I'm down.

01;35;00;16 - 01;35;01;04
JON
Yeah.

01;35;01;04 - 01;35;01;25
MURRAY
100%.

01;35;02;15 - 01;35;04;02
JOSH
Yeah, until May.

01;35;05;16 - 01;35;07;10
MURRAY
"May" the Force be with you.

01;35;07;16 - 01;35;10;14
JOSH
"May" the Force be with you. There we go. There we go.

01;35;10;15 - 01;35;11;29
MURRAY
There's your sign off baby.

01;35;12;27 - 01;35;13;16
JOSH
End of show.