Wizard! BOOK OF BOBA FETT Episode 5

00;00;07;09 - 00;00;12;10
JOSH
Welcome to the trash compactor, I am Josh, and today I am joined by Jon.

00;00;12;10 - 00;00;13;00
JON
Hello.

00;00;13;00 - 00;00;13;21
JOSH
Russ.

00;00;13;21 - 00;00;15;10
RUSS
Hi.

00;00;15;10 - 00;00;15;29
JOSH
James.

00;00;16;10 - 00;00;16;22
JAMES
Hello.

00;00;17;03 - 00;00;17;27
JOSH
And Murray.

00;00;18;12 - 00;00;19;06
MURRAY
Oh, hello.

00;00;19;07 - 00;00;26;12
JOSH
And we are going to be discussing episode 17 of The Mandalorian. I mean, episode five. of The Book of Boba Fett.

00;00;27;10 - 00;00;33;20
JOSH
See what I did there? Let's start with overall impressions in no particular order. James, what did you think of episode five?

00;00;33;29 - 00;00;47;00
JAMES
Oh, I mean, last week's episode that was my favorite episode this week was my my favorite episode, and I. I saw the most amount of things I'd like to see Boba Fett do, and Boba Fett didn't do them. So I don't know.

00;00;47;10 - 00;01;10;25
JAMES
And I felt like guilty that I'm enjoying the show, and our main character didn't show up in it once, but. And I'm yeah, so I really enjoyed it and enjoyed everything they did. I didn't realize how much I loved The Mandalorian until I saw him enter, like the Old West cowboy we wanted, and he had no expression.

00;01;10;25 - 00;01;17;10
JAMES
He just had his visor and I'm like, Somebody is in trouble, like somebody is in trouble. So I loved it. I loved every moment of it.

00;01;17;27 - 00;01;19;11
JOSH
Russ, your overall thoughts?

00;01;19;21 - 00;01;31;26
RUSS
Yeah, I think the like the buzz online was like the best episode of Bookable Effect, and he's not in it yet. That was the buzz. I think it's probably the worst episode of the Book of Boba Fett, but the best episode of Star Wars TV?

00;01;35;21 - 00;01;51;22
RUSS
I mean, just like the structurally like the worst episode, because it's not really totally. It's like a non sequitur in like what they were trying to achieve, maybe in Book of Boba Fett. But a Star Wars TV goes, I think it was one of the best I've seen, and I really enjoyed it, and it reminded me how

00;01;51;22 - 00;02;02;29
RUSS
much I love The Mandalorian, which is like the only new Star Wars that I like at this point, and this is one of the best episodes of that show. I have it. I've been playing and watching how they caught my eye.

00;02;03;27 - 00;02;05;27
RUSS
But yeah, I thought it was. I thought it was great.

00;02;06;21 - 00;02;17;21
JOSH
No, I mean, it is strange because this is sort of and I'm sure we'll discuss this. But this is sort of like the season three premiere, right? Like, a lot of stuff happens.

00;02;17;27 - 00;02;18;18
RUSS
Feels like it.

00;02;18;20 - 00;02;26;10
JOSH
That I don't know how you could jump into season three of The Mandalorian without having seen this. Murray, your overall thoughts?

00;02;26;16 - 00;02;36;20
MURRAY
I loved it. As soon as I as soon as I finished watching it, I texted Jonny I was like, But we're like not trying to say too much because we want to save it for today. But it was.

00;02;37;07 - 00;02;52;26
MURRAY
I loved it. It was the same exact thing where I when we're so far removed from Mandalorian that you're like, you're like, Oh, I did really like that show. I kind of miss it. And then you, like, see his entrance and it's like something of a western or like, justified.

00;02;52;26 - 00;03;08;15
MURRAY
And you're just like, Fuck, I like, I love this show. Like, it reminded me how much. But then it was also like few like, really like, maddening to me because it's just like them showing you like, Oh no, we had the potential to make TV this good for this whole

00;03;08;22 - 00;03;25;18
MURRAY
series. We just didn't do it like because it's like nothing. It's the same everybody that's working on it. So it's just like, Oh, here's the potential that we could have had the whole time. And I think that it is, they don't know.

00;03;25;18 - 00;03;43;17
MURRAY
They didn't fully know where they were going with season three of Mandalorian. And so this is kind of like a safe way to pave the way of like giving him an actual mission, like to accomplish an overall thing which I assume would be getting to the underwater caves.

00;03;43;17 - 00;03;50;08
MURRAY
But anyways, so yeah, I loved it. And also like, I hated it for those reasons, but I loved it.

00;03;51;09 - 00;03;55;17
JOSH
I have something to say about that, but first, I want to give Jon a chance to share his overall thoughts on the absurd.

00;03;56;20 - 00;04;15;12
JON
Yeah, I like everyone else. I loved it. I thought it was my favorite episode of the show, but as other people have hinted that and pointed out, it's not an episode of the show. It's an episode of The Mandalorian, and we all agree here that we missed The Mandalorian so much that when it showed up, it's like

00;04;15;12 - 00;04;29;10
JON
, Oh, fuck, I forgot how good the show was. And so but this this this episode had all the things that you think Star Wars would have like stars in space. You know.

00;04;31;07 - 00;04;46;02
JON
Spaceships and all these things. But on top of that, like, it's shot well, the fighting is great. The character development is great, and it's not even just character development. Isan like the things that happen with him in the other Mandalorians, which is awesome.

00;04;46;02 - 00;04;50;18
JON
It's also like he goes on a commercial vessel on a. Trip and.

00;04;50;18 - 00;05;08;09
JON
Like him trying to like bag his weapons show is his character. And it's like little moments like that. I'm like, We need more of that and Boba Fett. So in a weird way, it's funny because I think I'm way more positive on the show than than Russell is the way I was actually who.

00;05;09;04 - 00;05;31;13
JON
I was actually thinking of a. Similar thing that was like this episode being so good. Points out what this show is not doing. And so I just thought it was very interesting. I was like, This is a bold move. This is a very bold move for the show to do, and I have no idea how they're going to, like, bring the show back

00;05;31;13 - 00;05;41;09
JON
into Boba Fett and his thing because like. I, you know, I really enjoyed the show, but like his story is not as interesting as what happened in The. Mandalorian.

00;05;41;09 - 00;05;54;18
JON
I watched. That's like, I don't like a shit about, so it's like, I wonder. And also, like, I just wonder where they're going to go with their besides. Pedro Pascal sticking around for the next couple episodes. But like, I don't you know what?

00;05;54;18 - 00;06;04;07
JON
The next couple episodes give you the best fucking shit. I mean. I just like. I was like. Wow, like they they really do a lot in this episode that they haven't. Done at all. Well.

00;06;04;21 - 00;06;06;29
JON
That's basically like everything else that everybody else said.

00;06;08;10 - 00;06;22;20
JOSH
Well, so my take, obviously, I love the episode, I thought it was, I thought it was fantastic. The only thing I'll say is that all of these episodes are written by Jon Favreau, right? So so there's obviously a consistent creative voice.

00;06;23;09 - 00;06;45;19
JOSH
What this showed me was that while Mando displayed certain characteristics that we all assume Boba Fett would have, and once upon a time he did have in the nineties expanded universe. It just went to show me the distinction between them, like he knows that these are two very distinct and different characters and shows.

00;06;45;24 - 00;07;03;13
JOSH
Right? So so for me, my only quibble, I think with the attitudes that I'm reading online, it's not like this was a mistake or an accident, like they accidentally made a better show on this show. It's just that it really underscores the notion that this Boba Fett is not the old fat.

00;07;03;15 - 00;07;13;18
JOSH
These are two different characters. So when you see The Mandalorian acting this way, it's not a mistake. It's not like they they fucked up this show. It's that this is a complete other thing. James, then Murray.

00;07;13;29 - 00;07;26;29
JAMES
Well, I was just doing something we've talked about previously offline is, you know that there are sort of like two different, two different Boba Fett's being written or in Star Wars now at this point, based on the writing.

00;07;26;29 - 00;07;41;25
JAMES
And I mean, to quote, like the great Lin win, at least I attribute to them, he said. Like Canon links your best writing to your worst writing. So like now, now we have like we have Boba Fett of the Empire original trilogy era and we have Boba here.

00;07;41;25 - 00;07;57;02
JAMES
And just like any, any like comic book storytelling, when you're going to clean, clean slate a character, basically you, you know, your new creative team wants to do something new with it. So we're, I guess, you know, The Mandalorian is who we thought Boba Fett would be.

00;07;57;02 - 00;08;07;03
JAMES
But now, since we don't know who this new Boba Fett is, exactly, it's we don't know what to expect of him. And we love The Mandalorian and we thought The Mandalorian be Boba Fett. Now we have to contend with.

00;08;07;20 - 00;08;14;04
JAMES
Well, that's The Mandalorian. We don't know who this Boba Fett is, so I guess we're just waiting and seeing what happens with this new iteration of the character.

00;08;15;03 - 00;08;17;01
JOSH
Hmm. Jon?

00;08;18;07 - 00;08;35;00
MURRAY
So the like, I totally agree with what you what you said, Josh, and it's it's very true. And one of the things that I actually really enjoyed about this episode was I started to get nervous that the the kind of flat.

00;08;35;29 - 00;08;54;02
MURRAY
Bland, like feel that I'm getting from Boba Fett that had been saying no offense to Dean kundi or anything like that, but like it's I was scared that that was just like the new way they were going, almost like they got lazy because it's, you know, even though it's the first season of book Boba Fett's like their

00;08;54;02 - 00;09;08;17
MURRAY
third season of this kind of world, and I thought that there were just almost like phoning it in. And so it was a good reminder of like what you were saying, like, no. There are two totally distinct characters and and all of that.

00;09;08;17 - 00;09;26;21
MURRAY
But I think where it still gets me. Like, like so frustrated is because it wasn't. It was the other stuff that made up the the episode that could have been in like Boba Fett, like even like when, when and we'll get to it in more detail.

00;09;26;21 - 00;09;41;09
MURRAY
But when there's the the first shot like that Top Gun shot of him in the cockpit, it was like so jarring because like, there's like no cool shots in or cool camerawork in the book of Boba Fett. It just seems like very like bland and phoned in.

00;09;41;09 - 00;09;52;11
MURRAY
So it's just like. But so they could have been doing that the whole time. They're just like, I know that it's a desert, and so there's not going to be space and stars. But like, they could have been doing stuff like this the whole time.

00;09;52;12 - 00;10;09;26
MURRAY
So I'm glad that they kept the tone overall tones and characters different. But it's like you can still do like cool shit, like with your camera and and editing and everything like that. Like, that's kind of where it's still maddening for me because you're like, Oh, why you show me that you're just literally choosing not to do

00;10;09;26 - 00;10;10;20
MURRAY
any of this?

00;10;10;27 - 00;10;12;03
Speaker 2
And that's interesting.

00;10;12;04 - 00;10;22;20
JOSH
Too, because I think that comes down to the director. And I think that that really says a lot about the talents of Bryce Dallas Howard, who directed this episode, and also Robert Rodriguez, who directed.

00;10;23;24 - 00;10;23;29
Speaker 2
A.

00;10;23;29 - 00;10;25;02
MURRAY
Lot of planned ones.

00;10;25;02 - 00;10;28;26
Speaker 2
In your words, not mine. Yeah.

00;10;29;07 - 00;10;44;09
JOSH
The the the last episodes she did, I know that she did the seven Samurai rip off episode in the first season of The Mandalorian that I think at the time was very poorly received, and I think she got a lot of flak for that.

00;10;44;10 - 00;10;46;13
JOSH
The one where the one with the AT-ST.

00;10;47;00 - 00;10;49;27
Speaker 2
Yeah, I. Love that was so creepy. Oh my god.

00;10;50;00 - 00;10;52;08
JON
Well, I like that. I thought it was. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00;10;52;09 - 00;11;10;18
JOSH
I thought it was cool. But I recall at the time a lot of people were like, Russ, like you said to me at one point, like, you were getting serious Xena, Hercules, Warrior Princess vibes from this show. And like, that's an episode of Mando that has that sort of adventure of the week and like, cliched or.

00;11;10;18 - 00;11;11;26
MURRAY
OK, yeah.

00;11;11;26 - 00;11;12;23
Speaker 2
I, you know, sort.

00;11;12;23 - 00;11;22;22
JOSH
Of a premise. And I think that was the first in a run of episodes. I think that was like the fourth episode of Mando or the third or something like that. And the first one that Bryce Dallas Howard had directed.

00;11;22;22 - 00;11;36;21
JOSH
So I think a lot of the negative reaction really wasn't her fault. So it was really nice to see the opposite sort of happen with this one where it's like clearly a fan favorite. It's it's it's a by any measure.

00;11;36;21 - 00;11;44;15
JOSH
I think this is a fantastic episode, regardless of what you think of the rest of the series and whether or not it even belongs in this particular series. But so I thought I thought that was really cool.

00;11;44;19 - 00;12;02;29
JON
Yeah, I think she also did the the one where they introduced Bo-Katan and the other Mandalorians. I think she did that one as well, too. Yeah. But you know, those episodes have some really awesome moments for men, for Mando as a person, and they had really good visual things like with the lights in the 88, etc. and

00;12;02;29 - 00;12;04;22
JON
stuff like that. But I think.

00;12;04;22 - 00;12;10;22
JOSH
That's a great episode I thought was really the record. I'm just saying that I think that that it sort of for a lot of people was sort of a bummer.

00;12;10;29 - 00;12;29;21
JON
Yeah, at the time. But but my what I was going to say before, though, is that I wonder why I'm always wondering why filmmakers decide to do certain things, why they decide to concentrate on certain things. And this episode kind of brought that question to the forefront a little bit for me, where it's almost like, All right

00;12;29;21 - 00;12;52;09
JON
, Mando is the Boba Fett that we thought Boba Fett was going to be. And Boba Fett is not. And it's like, OK, but why? And then it's like, So so why would you put a situation where it's like, Hey, you know how this really cool like Mandalorian bounty hunter that's going to be like, really slick and awesome

00;12;52;09 - 00;13;04;00
JON
? All that like, yeah, you're going to have that. But it's not going to be Boba Fett. Boba Fett is going to be like this other dude that you have. That's totally different from that. And like, OK, but which is actually a really cool idea.

00;13;04;23 - 00;13;21;27
JON
But they still I'm still waiting for that compelling hook, and I feel like the book of Boba Fett as much as I'm enjoying it, as much as they're doing interesting things with, like making him a person of the people and a liberator and all that.

00;13;22;27 - 00;13;33;09
JON
They still haven't found that hook I feel to like, really grab my attention because I honestly don't care if Boba Fett succeeds or not.

00;13;34;19 - 00;13;35;28
Speaker 2
And I don't mean that in like.

00;13;36;22 - 00;13;47;13
JON
I don't mean that in a way where it's like, I think Boba Fett is a piece of shit or something like that, or that the show sucks. It's just that like because I'm enjoying it. I'm watching it vicariously.

00;13;47;13 - 00;14;10;00
JON
But like, I really do care of Mando makes it. And sure, Boba Fett, it's like, I don't even care if he dies. And it's just like, it's just like, but because because right now he's still. Not quite. A full character, I feel, and as much as Tamar Morrison gives some gravitas and all that, it's like, I still

00;14;10;11 - 00;14;24;05
JON
there's still something there that they haven't exposed yet. And I almost think that like they might do a 180 by the end of the show and have them become like a real scumbag as like a twist just to throw people off because he's so.

00;14;25;06 - 00;14;39;23
JON
Just kind of indistinct, you know, in a weird way. So, yeah, it's like, I don't know where they're going, and it's like in a way where it's like, I'm curious, but I'm also like, kind of don't care.

00;14;42;10 - 00;14;56;23
RUSS
Ruslan Murray Yeah, I think they got greedy with Book of Boba Fett when when we heard Mandalorian is coming out, is it all right? They're not going to make a Boba Fett show because they don't have to tiptoe around the previous expanded universe now legacy.

00;14;57;16 - 00;15;07;17
RUSS
They want to make something that's all their own, that they can really craft and fit in however they want. And it did really well, and I don't think they were surprised, but I think it did better than expected even.

00;15;08;18 - 00;15;20;04
RUSS
And I think they got greedy like, all right. So people like this Mandalorian. Well, we have this fan favorite Mandalorian we've totally ignored is even The Mandalorian. We don't know, but we've ignored him. Let's just bring them back.

00;15;20;07 - 00;15;31;09
RUSS
Let's bring both. But let's have them both together. That's going to blow everyone's minds. I think they got greedy and unfortunately, they had taken like, as Jon mentioned, really all the attributes that we had previously thought would work better for Boba Fett.

00;15;31;15 - 00;15;43;19
RUSS
And they applied them to a new character. So really, they stripped out of everything that was cool about Boba Fett gave it to their new character. They left nothing for the original character, and some could say, Oh, he wasn't a fleshed out character.

00;15;43;25 - 00;15;56;08
RUSS
I would disagree, even if it's in my head canon. And so now, when they come to book about that, they have nothing distinctly Boba Fett to really explore. They can't make him cool. He should have been a bounty hunter.

00;15;57;07 - 00;16;13;16
RUSS
They do have to extract him from his previous location, which was the the justice system of the Sarlacc Pit, but they didn't have a plan. And to make us enjoy the show, you have to like the character. We like The Mandalorian, as you know, Jonny said, like, we want to see him succeed.

00;16;14;12 - 00;16;26;18
RUSS
He has a paternal nature to him. He's a friend of animals. They try to apply a lot of these things to Boba Fett. It just felt like we were getting a repeat left over. Oh, well, it worked once we'll do it again.

00;16;26;21 - 00;16;50;15
RUSS
It's not working because it's not distinctly that like, it's not distinctly separate or different. So they got greedy, and I would totally agree with previously about the direction of the show. Like this show? This episode also felt really planned and specific, like the production quality on this episode alone, like blew my mind between the flashback sequence.

00;16;50;15 - 00;17;07;17
RUSS
You have probed droids, which are my personal favorite for reasons, and they approve droids flying in the sky. Like there's like fire all over and there's the what the K-2SO robot from Rogue one like with like glowing eyes like an Iron Giant kind of looking thing.

00;17;07;24 - 00;17;20;28
RUSS
And just like that landscape alone was like the best thing I'd seen in any of these shows, like just like a beautiful, beautiful landscape. Like, it looked good and it's something we have not seen before, and it was kind of somewhat terrifying.

00;17;20;28 - 00;17;24;12
RUSS
It's kind of like a like a Terminator future flashback, kind of.

00;17;24;22 - 00;17;31;01
JON
And yeah, I definitely saw that. I was like, Oh, so Terminator when they shot. And then just like shooting the dead bodies in the fire.

00;17;31;06 - 00;17;44;26
RUSS
Using elements they have using tie bombers like they basically just like like just like a colorful, dramatic stick in all my favorite stuff up on the screen and looking really good like this is an exciting looking episode. And that's in just a flashback.

00;17;44;27 - 00;18;04;13
RUSS
I mean, it opens in a Western style. There's a sparring sequence. There's so many like disparate elements that like, join together. Like, really, we're talking last last podcast about all these, all these different influences make up Star Wars and what makes our was great, and this just seamlessly combined all those different genres and styles.

00;18;04;18 - 00;18;07;24
RUSS
There's a cinema verité very like killing of a Chinese bookie.

00;18;08;10 - 00;18;09;10
Speaker 2
You know, Mando.

00;18;09;18 - 00;18;12;14
RUSS
Mando walking through like trying to find this location.

00;18;12;14 - 00;18;13;06
Speaker 2
Like, yeah, yeah.

00;18;13;18 - 00;18;14;23
RUSS
They were like long shots.

00;18;15;03 - 00;18;15;12
Speaker 2
And I was.

00;18;15;12 - 00;18;20;15
JON
Just thinking, like, is it mostly like one shot to, is this walking through the city and the lights on them and all that?

00;18;20;25 - 00;18;37;24
RUSS
It's just like, it's giving us time. It's patient is taking his time is letting us respond to what we're seeing. We're following. We're living with the character. It's delicate and it's it takes us time and it's just how could you not love this character and be you're with the character you're following with this character.

00;18;37;27 - 00;18;50;12
RUSS
He's limping. You're like, Oh my, like, he needs to do something he needs. Like, I'm like, back to spray or something on his leg. Like, What? What's going on? And so, yeah, I just it's just it's such a departure.

00;18;51;03 - 00;18;57;25
RUSS
I guess we'll talk more later about how it doesn't really fit the show, but I digress for now. Right?

00;18;58;07 - 00;19;19;11
MURRAY
Well, it's like on that same like idea. It really besides the them actually using like a world and environment, like a cityscape and a weird looking city that's like almost like a space station circular thing. And it has the Western feel and the mundane like, Oh, this world has a butcher like an actual butcher shop.

00;19;19;11 - 00;19;43;19
MURRAY
And but there is something to be said about we. We care about the Mandalorian character because even though he finds. Roku, in the end, the first episode he still has like. A complete arc, it's not like he finds, you know, Grogu, and then all of a sudden he's a paternal like, he's like, struggling with it, right?

00;19;43;19 - 00;20;00;03
MURRAY
Like he is still like because he he is a a guy that doesn't seem to care if things go violent. He like it doesn't matter to him like he. In the beginning of this episode, it was literally the same to him.

00;20;00;03 - 00;20;14;09
MURRAY
However, he's just getting his money and. But you get. You we watched him be more like it's like so cold hearted and businesslike, and then he kind of grows and he cares even if it's about this one child.

00;20;14;09 - 00;20;29;20
MURRAY
But then it's like, he's like almost struggling. It kind of has that western feel where it's like, maybe like the man with no name. And you think he's going to leave Town, but then he is still compelled somehow to do good and come back and save everybody.

00;20;29;24 - 00;20;46;21
MURRAY
That's what we liked about Han Solo, right in the New Hope. And so they have like this like depth to it. But then with Boba Fett like he emerges from the Sonic. But I've been saying this and I'll say it like this until the end is like he emerges a the character that you see, like, we don't

00;20;46;21 - 00;21;00;10
MURRAY
see why he went from no disintegration to like what change happened to him. Like because it didn't happen through meeting the Tusken raiders because he was already changed by the time he came out of out of the pit.

00;21;00;10 - 00;21;13;16
MURRAY
And so I think that that's what's going on. So when you're seeing Mando limping, you actually care that he's hurt. But you can't like Boba Fett could get like his arm ripped off by new Barca. And you're just like, Oh, that's kind of cool.

00;21;13;17 - 00;21;14;15
MURRAY
Like, you wouldn't like.

00;21;15;00 - 00;21;15;23
Speaker 2
Like, give a shit.

00;21;15;28 - 00;21;28;07
MURRAY
But like with him, you're like, Oh, his legs are hurting. I hope he can't keep go, Oh, that's a big ladder for him to climb down with the hurt leg. Like you actually like care. And when he gets knocked off and like for a second, I guess I'm like, Oh yeah, he's got a jetpack.

00;21;28;07 - 00;21;41;03
MURRAY
Never mind. Like, you know, it's just like so many cool things. And the last thing on this, I just the thing that made me laugh is the description. I don't know if anyone caught it. It was like an unexpected ally like helps out.

00;21;41;16 - 00;21;46;05
MURRAY
Oh, you mean the the person we like explicitly expected since the last episode.

00;21;47;21 - 00;21;51;28
Speaker 2
With the musical cue that was the unexpected ally that we.

00;21;51;28 - 00;21;52;28
MURRAY
Have. Well, yeah.

00;21;53;12 - 00;21;54;21
Speaker 2
So that's my ramble.

00;21;55;18 - 00;22;00;20
JOSH
Jon and then I have a couple of points. I want to respond to that. You guys said.

00;22;00;25 - 00;22;10;29
JON
Well, I don't have anything really big. It's more of like a question, but I kind of feel like perhaps with Boba Fett, they're trying to do like a reverse Michael Corleone type of thing where it's like.

00;22;11;21 - 00;22;14;09
Speaker 2
He goes from bad to good and some.

00;22;14;27 - 00;22;15;08
JON
Empire.

00;22;15;16 - 00;22;16;09
Speaker 2
Not Breaking Bad.

00;22;16;14 - 00;22;17;09
JON
Like Breaking Good.

00;22;17;18 - 00;22;22;02
Speaker 2
Breaking Bad. Yeah, pretty good. I like that. That's their motto. Yeah, yeah.

00;22;22;11 - 00;22;37;05
JON
But. So that being said, like since most of us now, maybe maybe Josh has a bit of a different opinion. But I think since most of us seem to be talking about like, well, what is it about Boba Fett that I know seems to be missing?

00;22;37;09 - 00;22;49;04
JON
I feel like that. Maybe that's a question I want to ask. Everybody said, What do you think? They need to show that that we haven't seen that hasn't connected us to him like the way that we connect to Mando.

00;22;49;14 - 00;22;55;08
JON
But but it's Josh, you want to get to your points before you answer that. Go ahead. I mean, that's the second question I'm putting out to everybody.

00;22;56;19 - 00;22;58;14
JOSH
What a quandary as a host. I want to.

00;22;59;00 - 00;23;00;29
Speaker 2
I want if I want to.

00;23;00;29 - 00;23;02;17
JOSH
Facilitate this discussion, but.

00;23;02;17 - 00;23;06;22
Speaker 2
I have opinions. Russell, go ahead.

00;23;07;28 - 00;23;14;22
RUSS
Oh, sure to answer Jon's question. There's nothing they can do for me to recover like the bubble character.

00;23;15;15 - 00;23;18;16
Speaker 2
That sack of shit and.

00;23;18;17 - 00;23;19;11
MURRAY
That polio, I.

00;23;19;11 - 00;23;21;22
Speaker 2
Swear. No, no.

00;23;21;26 - 00;23;37;09
RUSS
It's fine. Like we talked last episode where, like, I had a very distinct opinion of like what I thought that character was or you know what they could have done differently. You know, leave him in the Sarlacc Pit and have a flashback to past adventures and bounties, though then later come back to affect him in his new

00;23;37;09 - 00;23;49;15
RUSS
show. Also, leave your helmet on Judge Dredd principle. Don't take your helmet off. That's your character. That's your face. Like, there's a lot of things they did wrong that they really they can't. They can't rewind and and things.

00;23;49;15 - 00;23;55;04
JOSH
Like that so that that whole thing with the helmet off his attack of the clones, it's I mean, it's all attack of the Clones on The Clone Wars.

00;23;55;04 - 00;24;10;19
RUSS
But he wears his helmet off, like in the original trilogy. That's who he is now, like, like he's a victim of trauma. Whatever is my opinion of, like seeing his father beheaded. And so he's taken his face and he now he's like, I am this, I am this person like, this is me.

00;24;10;20 - 00;24;17;07
RUSS
I am the armor. He would never take his armor off, even like out of the back of the tank, like armor back on. He's not wearing a robe. You go check on people.

00;24;17;16 - 00;24;18;19
Speaker 2
I don't know. You got.

00;24;18;19 - 00;24;19;15
JON
That. I mean, no.

00;24;19;16 - 00;24;31;09
JOSH
Yeah, because like he he he lost it and and like had to forge a new identity without it. Like question that I want to ask you, Russ. And again, I know that it's hard because we have our head cannons and we have our own thoughts stuff.

00;24;31;19 - 00;24;40;07
JOSH
But seeing as how mando or din dejar or whatever you want to call him seeing is how he's he's basically the character we all thought Boba Fett was.

00;24;40;11 - 00;24;40;28
RUSS
I like him.

00;24;42;00 - 00;24;52;01
JOSH
No, I know. And like, I mean, we basically have that character. It's just it's just somebody else. So like, why all the handwringing over the other direction that they're taking? Yeah.

00;24;52;02 - 00;24;53;13
Speaker 2
Well, I'm just out of curiosity.

00;24;53;13 - 00;24;53;28
JOSH
Like, I don't.

00;24;53;29 - 00;25;05;00
RUSS
Oh, sure. Like I when The Mandalorian came out, is it all right? Just don't bring Boba Fett back then because you've done it like you can't like, you can't bring back this character. Like, you could even leave him dead.

00;25;05;05 - 00;25;19;08
RUSS
Like that would be the opposite of the legacy books and later, like, leave him dead. Don't bring him back because you've decided you want to go in a different direction. I'm just I don't. It's not the Boba Fett I wanted.

00;25;19;14 - 00;25;37;05
RUSS
I don't, and I haven't established an emotional connection. It really goes back to what Jon was saying, like in Mary as well. Like we we care about what happens to The Mandalorian. We care about his small injuries. We care about him finding or reconnecting with with, well, go, go, go.

00;25;37;13 - 00;25;53;25
RUSS
I don't know Baby Yoda, Grogu. Yeah, I never. I've never said it out loud volume. Baby Yoda's like when never going to call him whatever, whatever his real name is. Yeah. Like there's I don't like this Boba Fett.

00;25;53;25 - 00;26;06;03
RUSS
I don't feel anything for him and I really wanted to, and they need to do the character building. They did it with the character we never met before. And by the end of the first episode, I actually care what he's thinking, what he's doing, even just like the way his voice comes through in the helmet.

00;26;06;09 - 00;26;19;08
RUSS
I'm like, I'm like on every word, I'm like in body motion, like I. He's doing more with a helmet on than Tamura is doing without one, and I think tours do an amazing job for what he's given. I think he's an amazing actor.

00;26;19;15 - 00;26;26;28
RUSS
I just don't like that portrayal of the character. I don't know if there's there's much more to say. It just is not interesting to me.

00;26;27;11 - 00;26;39;19
JOSH
To answer Jon's question. And then Murray, I'll throw you, but I feel like I got everything I needed to care about this version of Boba Fett from the second episode. What he does for the tuskers. I like this guy.

00;26;39;19 - 00;26;42;24
JOSH
I would follow him as a leader. I like him. Murray.

00;26;43;03 - 00;27;03;20
MURRAY
It's like, I don't really have an answer for Jon's question because I don't think that the show knows who the character is, either. Like, I think they're just going like, I don't know, it's not. They're just like. They I don't I think that they're trying to find him almost like while filming was like, no, you should have

00;27;03;20 - 00;27;18;15
MURRAY
found him in the editing of the writing of the series. And not this because there was like, I think part of it comes down to also the show. I don't I really wish I had a better way of explaining it, but it's just like very flat feeling.

00;27;18;15 - 00;27;42;01
MURRAY
I get the sense. It seems like almost like. Like sound stage, like like the fight scenes kind of seem like like stage fighting, like it just seems it doesn't it thought like encapsulating you. And so like the where comes to Boba Fett in the second episode, and this is a point that Jon pointed out that stuck to

00;27;42;01 - 00;27;55;04
MURRAY
me the most is like when his first instinct is to apologize for the lizard going like up his nose. Like, he's not mad, he's not anything. And I think that's awesome, and you could build an awesome character off of that.

00;27;55;04 - 00;28;07;12
MURRAY
But explain, like more than like, give me more than that little thing and then never revisited again. Because, like in the second episode of Mandalorian, that's when we had it was kind of the lone wolf and cub like for real.

00;28;07;22 - 00;28;27;05
MURRAY
And just like the little moments, the cutaway moments of him panicking to keep the carriage away from whoever it was like an animal was attacking them right? Or like making sure to to close it like even those little things that may endear you to Mando and you kind of are getting, Oh, he's really getting more and more

00;28;27;05 - 00;28;42;18
MURRAY
attached to this child more than just the bounty. Like, I don't see, even though the filming of like those kind of like cutaway scenes of like that express care for a character like in Boba Fett. Like, I don't in the show, not not the the character.

00;28;42;19 - 00;28;53;18
MURRAY
Like, it just doesn't seem like they're giving it that much level of detail. It's almost like everything's like a medium shot and everything is just like flat. There's like no depth. I don't I. I wish I could explain it more.

00;28;53;18 - 00;29;05;26
MURRAY
But that's just why I think I'm having a hard time connecting with him because even in the lizard scene like that was in a cool, like, it's like atmosphere, right? It was like in this like kind of ceremony.

00;29;05;26 - 00;29;19;06
MURRAY
It was like dark. There was like Fire Go is like it was there's like texture to the whole atmosphere and scene. And then I don't know if that's why, what made me connect to him more in that scene where everything else is like, Oh, here's bland beige desert.

00;29;19;06 - 00;29;29;02
MURRAY
And he's kind of like shot medium. And you can't get any nuance from his acting like, I don't know. I just don't think the show knows what it's doing, just like, I don't know how to get out of this.

00;29;29;15 - 00;29;45;17
JON
Perhaps these things were those were those episodes that you're talking about feel much more like a TV and TV's limitations compared to, well, a lot of Mandalorian does and what this episode does, which is like they tried to push it to the brink of what TV can do.

00;29;45;18 - 00;29;49;23
JON
So it's almost like cinema. Yes, on the small screen and episodes.

00;29;50;05 - 00;29;50;28
MURRAY
That's perfect.

00;29;50;28 - 00;29;55;28
JON
Yeah, I feel like it's like they're not trying to push it to the brink that they can do. They're just they're just getting the shot.

00;29;56;11 - 00;30;00;10
MURRAY
They're just getting it done. They're doing it on like a TV budget, not doing Disney.

00;30;00;12 - 00;30;04;22
JON
It seems seems more like TV and sort of like cinema. And yes, star 100%.

00;30;04;23 - 00;30;05;06
MURRAY
Yeah, it's.

00;30;05;06 - 00;30;08;20
JON
A movie that changed cinema. So our expectation subconsciously are.

00;30;09;03 - 00;30;11;22
MURRAY
Are probably it? Exactly. That's probably, yeah.

00;30;11;23 - 00;30;13;17
JON
You're see Russ enthusiastically.

00;30;13;26 - 00;30;15;04
Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah.

00;30;16;08 - 00;30;17;02
RUSS
Jon got it.

00;30;17;09 - 00;30;32;17
JOSH
I think that's a really good point. But just to explain a little bit of where I'm coming from, like I'm someone who genuinely loves Seventies BBC Doctor Who, right? So I'm of the opinion that TV should embrace what it is and not try to be cinema.

00;30;32;20 - 00;30;48;16
JOSH
Sure, because it is its own thing. Now, that's not to say that means you should like this show or that the show is even what it should or could be. But I just wanted to point that out that I don't think that film movies, whatever you want to call it, is inherently of more value than what I

00;30;48;16 - 00;30;56;29
JOSH
would consider a TV format or style. And obviously, I know that the line between the two is increasingly blurred now more than ever. James, go ahead.

00;30;57;00 - 00;31;09;18
JAMES
Yeah, I was. I mean, just to answer Jon's question, I think what maybe we needed for Boba Fett to be Boba Fett is if if Disney was, you know, they probably shouldn't do this, but they didn't want to do is like he should have been a bad guy.

00;31;09;19 - 00;31;18;03
JAMES
Like we would have had a show about a bad guy and he could have started off bad and then he would have had a revelation, maybe with the Tusken raiders. And then we would have seen the transformation happen.

00;31;18;03 - 00;31;18;18
Speaker 2
In the first.

00;31;18;18 - 00;31;24;03
JAMES
Episode. Would have been good. Would have been him like killing jaws for touching his armor and then.

00;31;24;22 - 00;31;25;09
Speaker 2
Or.

00;31;25;09 - 00;31;40;22
JAMES
Trying to kill jaws and assaulting Tusken raiders. And then you're like, Well, OK, these guys are taking me whatever and some evolution of that. But he would have been a bad guy for the first few episodes until he was not a bad guy until he learned sensitivity and to care about people and to, like, realize maybe bounty

00;31;40;22 - 00;31;47;03
JAMES
hunting. You know, he has this moral revelation, what it is. And then we could go on this journey where he does the reverse Michael Corleone. You know.

00;31;47;15 - 00;31;48;13
JON
It's actually pretty good.

00;31;49;03 - 00;31;49;10
Speaker 2
Up for.

00;31;49;10 - 00;31;49;27
RUSS
That show.

00;31;50;01 - 00;32;02;16
JAMES
But yeah, and the other thing I was like noticing just kind of go off of your point, Jon and and Murray about, you know, the breaking good in the and the reverse godfather. You know, we have now The Mandalorian, which we have two characters.

00;32;02;16 - 00;32;09;08
JAMES
We have Boba Fett, who was trying to get power and we have The Mandalorian, who has the power. He's the he's basically Aragorn right now. He has to say, Yeah.

00;32;09;19 - 00;32;10;02
JON
He doesn't.

00;32;10;02 - 00;32;21;03
JAMES
What's interesting, he doesn't want power. So like these two different guys who are and Boba Fett's working really hard to get power, that's not coming easy. And Mando just has to be himself, and he has the entire kingdom of man.

00;32;21;16 - 00;32;23;05
JAMES
So I don't know.

00;32;23;05 - 00;32;23;27
Speaker 2
What's going to go, but.

00;32;24;05 - 00;32;30;11
MURRAY
He's struggling with that too, right? That's why he can't use the saber that well, because he's might try to he can't let go type.

00;32;30;21 - 00;32;31;09
JON
And that's.

00;32;31;09 - 00;32;31;22
JOSH
Interesting.

00;32;31;23 - 00;32;51;04
JON
And James, because it's interesting. That's just fantastic point. You just made. And when I was watching the show, they were talking about the dark saber. I was actually thinking to myself, like. I wonder if it's going to get to a point where, like if Boba becomes such a good leader that they think that maybe like this clone

00;32;51;04 - 00;33;07;23
JON
who everyone thinks is like a thing who is Boba Fett somehow inherits the dark saber and rebuilds Mandalore. And it was just like, it's not going to become a confrontation between him and Mando because like, you were kind of bringing out this guy wants power and the other guy doesn't.

00;33;07;23 - 00;33;12;27
JON
And as we usually know, the people who don't want to be leaders tend to be the best leaders.

00;33;13;07 - 00;33;15;03
Speaker 2
Yeah. You know, like they tend.

00;33;15;03 - 00;33;26;25
JON
To be the ones with the most noble intentions, you know? So I don't know. I think that's a really good potential for Boba versus Mando sort of clash that maybe they will get into. Maybe they won't.

00;33;27;10 - 00;33;28;08
JOSH
Rest, then Murray.

00;33;28;12 - 00;33;39;29
RUSS
Yeah. Mentioning Lord of the Rings reference the Aragorn, another kind of Lord of the Rings reference, in my opinion, is the best car that was melted down was made into what I believe is going to be a chain mail shirt.

00;33;39;29 - 00;33;41;06
RUSS
So kind of like the mythology was saying.

00;33;41;06 - 00;33;43;02
JOSH
The same thing, B and J, the same thing off.

00;33;44;14 - 00;33;45;19
Speaker 2
Working on the floor. Yep.

00;33;45;25 - 00;33;58;04
RUSS
Yep, yeah. Total total myth. Real silver shirt to protect young Grogu you in the future. And I was like, Yeah, there's definitely some like Lord of the Rings ness to it, and I love it. I think that's good.

00;33;58;08 - 00;34;02;28
RUSS
And of course, wrapped up in a little pouch that, oh of course, looks like, you know, roughly his head and ears.

00;34;03;05 - 00;34;03;19
Speaker 2
Yeah, that's.

00;34;03;19 - 00;34;16;12
RUSS
Cute. That's cute. Like even that, like something simple like that, like goes like, it just strikes back the emotion that you've already established with the character. I'm like, They can do no wrong here. It's just like. And it's really it's a really well directed episode.

00;34;16;12 - 00;34;29;09
RUSS
I just it really blew me away. And especially even like visually like like the tone and style of it, I don't know if anyone really like it goes through a whole bunch of different visual styles. And I just thinking like, like, there's so much.

00;34;29;09 - 00;34;41;25
RUSS
I don't know if there's more production value coming out of like the different locations, but I had that tattooing fatigue. And here we're on this like circular space station. They're hanging off the edge where if you fall, you're going out into space.

00;34;42;15 - 00;34;59;02
RUSS
It's it's really like some fresh Star Wars like we haven't seen locations like this, and that's just adding to the benefit. Like, granted, let's go back to tattooing later to what amounts to like one of the best. Like, we got to win this race spaceship building situation.

00;34;59;02 - 00;34;59;18
Speaker 2
Like no.

00;34;59;27 - 00;35;00;22
MURRAY
Pod racing.

00;35;00;29 - 00;35;01;19
RUSS
Like sports.

00;35;01;19 - 00;35;02;16
Speaker 2
Training was harsh.

00;35;02;17 - 00;35;02;28
RUSS
Like, Yeah.

00;35;04;09 - 00;35;04;15
Speaker 2
Yeah.

00;35;04;29 - 00;35;08;14
RUSS
I had no problem with that, and I was shocked either. A guy like this?

00;35;08;14 - 00;35;10;01
Speaker 2
Why? Why am I like?

00;35;10;08 - 00;35;14;26
JOSH
What is this feeling me like? This bad light hit sentiment in the context?

00;35;15;07 - 00;35;25;16
RUSS
But but but I guess the jump in real quick, I don't know. I kind of want to get back to it. Like like, this was the worst episode of Book of Boba Fett for me, because it just reminded me, yeah, all the reasons why what that show would fail to do.

00;35;25;17 - 00;35;37;22
RUSS
As mentioned previously, and I just think at this point, we have what two episodes left that are going to be like a total, probably all out, you know, knockdown, drag out, type of battle. That's going to be fun.

00;35;37;28 - 00;35;49;21
RUSS
Will it be redeeming? Do I care what happens to Boba Fett? Still, no, but I care what happens to the character fighting. So I'm kind of curious. Like, I think, like, if it's a melee style, it's going to be good ideas, really.

00;35;49;21 - 00;36;02;23
RUSS
It's going to be in bright sun tattooing. And like, again, that's like something like we have seen before. And that's kind of the Xena Hercules thing, like the production value. It's like here we are in Southern California, shooting Xena, Hercules and everything like this.

00;36;02;23 - 00;36;13;26
RUSS
It's like mash. Like all we have is this location like it's going to be the same in every episode. It's more about the talking and the quippy dialog and whatever happens with the local village. And it's just a little it's a.

00;36;13;29 - 00;36;14;13
Speaker 2
Little.

00;36;15;15 - 00;36;21;21
RUSS
Tiresome. I don't know. So I like to see if they do something unique in this battle that would be kind of fun to see.

00;36;21;23 - 00;36;26;25
JOSH
Murray, then Jon and then I want to move on to discuss some particulars of the episode.

00;36;26;25 - 00;36;40;06
MURRAY
I was just thinking of what James was saying about the if it will be like you have someone that wants power or was a genre that wants power and someone that has it. And so it might lead to some sort of conflict.

00;36;40;06 - 00;37;03;22
MURRAY
And it's like the one of the main points of this episode was to bring back the Darksaber like mythos, right? Like what it how you need it like that kind of like elder wand aspect of it? And then to the extent that like you see him struggle using it in the very beginning, he struggles with the sparring

00;37;04;02 - 00;37;16;23
MURRAY
and then to win the fight, you know, there's the other Mandalorian and it does that like kind of like hunt for Red October, like zoom in on him when they're talking like and you're like, they do with the chef and you're like, Oh, this guy is going to beat something bad and a little bit.

00;37;17;05 - 00;37;31;10
MURRAY
And so and so when they have the fight, like he starts off trying to fight with the Darksaber, but then just goes back to and he's like, struggling. You're like, Oh, you're almost like thinking, like, I thought Mando was a better fighter than this.

00;37;31;11 - 00;37;49;27
MURRAY
Like, you're not fully like, at least I wasn't like fully piecing together just how much of a hindrance the world's most powerful weapon is. And then. And then to win the fight, he just has to go back. He's got to drop it and he's got to go back to his normal like knives and melee stuff, and I

00;37;49;27 - 00;38;09;01
MURRAY
thought that was really cool and then I don't know what, but there's something really cool to be said in which he has to like that vest score spear. And the point out that like, no, like we like, we use armor like not weapons like almost like, you know, like.

00;38;09;22 - 00;38;13;27
MURRAY
Which is weird because our bounty hunters, but it's like almost like we don't like. I mean, not rich.

00;38;13;27 - 00;38;15;08
JOSH
Like, I mean, he's a bounty hunter.

00;38;16;00 - 00;38;16;18
MURRAY
OK?

00;38;16;24 - 00;38;18;07
JON
But they are warrior culture.

00;38;18;15 - 00;38;35;11
MURRAY
Yeah, like, but it's like a warrior culture. But that with the emphasis on armor, not weapons, which it was like weird to me because that's what like she was kind of saying. And then it's just another cool like depth of character that even though there's only three of them left and he kind of learned the truth about

00;38;35;11 - 00;38;55;14
MURRAY
so much that happened, he's still like, so lost that he, he cares, like to keep his like religious beliefs of like he's ashamed that he took off his helmet. He doesn't want to get rid of all his weapons because that's like his religion and like a part of me was thinking like, like, I maybe lost sight because

00;38;55;14 - 00;39;08;00
MURRAY
I was like, You've been through so much like, I thought you didn't care about this stuff anymore, but it's like he still kind of like so lost like. Or maybe it's because he doesn't have Brochu Arugula Goku that he doesn't know what to do.

00;39;08;00 - 00;39;13;19
MURRAY
So he's like resorting back to that the old ways. But yeah.

00;39;13;20 - 00;39;33;00
JOSH
His always know you're right. Something that you just made me realize that I think lends credence to what both James and Jon are saying about how the Darksaber is going to factor in. I think the fact that they spent an entire episode like really reminding you what the Darksaber does, how it works, how important it is.

00;39;33;04 - 00;39;41;07
JOSH
I think that means that it has to factor into how this season wraps up. Because otherwise, as great as this season was, it is.

00;39;42;21 - 00;39;45;16
RUSS
Who season bookable. Fedor Mandalorian Season three.

00;39;46;13 - 00;39;55;02
JOSH
The Book of Boba Fett. OK. Because otherwise it's it's a been. It is a waste of an hour. It's a great episode, but for the wrong show, it's checkoff.

00;39;55;02 - 00;39;55;25
MURRAY
Stark Saber.

00;39;56;05 - 00;39;56;24
Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah.

00;39;57;22 - 00;40;01;17
JOSH
Exactly, Jon And then I want to move on to some other stuff

00;40;01;17 - 00;40;03;27
JON
Really quickly. one, I think knowing.

00;40;04;00 - 00;40;04;21
JOSH
No Jon, do it slow.

00;40;06;15 - 00;40;21;18
JON
Really quickly. one When he says the word of wizard, which was actually an me. I said movie actually because it felt like a movie. But I think it's almost because he delivered the line like the way Ash delivers groovy and evil.

00;40;21;22 - 00;40;22;02
JON
Yeah.

00;40;22;15 - 00;40;23;18
Speaker 2
Maybe. You know?

00;40;23;26 - 00;40;41;00
JON
And so moving on from that, I think you're right, Josh. I think it is going to come into a Darksaber thing. I wouldn't be surprised if Bo-Katan comes back. And somehow, even if Boba, even if Mando loses it to Boba Fett and maybe Boba Fett breaks bad or whatever, I think Bo-Katan will probably come back and they'll

00;40;41;00 - 00;41;03;14
JON
be some sort of three triangle struggle for this thing. But that said, everything that you're just talking about, Murray, I totally agree with. I loved it. And I what I really loved about his interaction with other Mandalorians in this episode and showing him doing another bounty hunter in the very beginning is, I think the whole episode is

00;41;03;14 - 00;41;07;12
JON
also trying to show you that he is lost like he's lost in that first scene.

00;41;07;18 - 00;41;14;09
JOSH
That scene of this episode was almost word for word shot for shot, the very first scene from the very first episode exactly.

00;41;15;16 - 00;41;27;13
JON
Where he started. Yeah, and it reminds people like you remember in The Force Awakens and Han Solo's like, Wow, I went back to doing what I do best and stuff like that. I'm like, That's what Mando did. And then when he loses his club, I'm like, Hey, guess what?

00;41;27;13 - 00;41;33;04
JON
You're no longer a Mandalorian. Get out of here. He's desperate. It's like, I have nobody man. Like.

00;41;33;13 - 00;41;35;10
Speaker 2
We didn't have a ship. Yeah, yeah.

00;41;35;23 - 00;41;38;01
JON
Officer and a gentleman. Like, Don't you do it?

00;41;38;02 - 00;41;42;07
Speaker 2
I got to go, you know? Yeah, it's one of.

00;41;42;07 - 00;41;50;25
JON
Those things where it's like that and then like, but he gets the new ship and he's like, excited because it's like, like, almost like it's something new. It's his and.

00;41;50;25 - 00;41;51;26
MURRAY
Now. And it's also like.

00;41;51;26 - 00;41;55;21
JON
This is good character stuff. I thought it was like, fucking fantastic.

00;41;56;01 - 00;42;08;02
MURRAY
And he's got a focus now, which is it's like an impossible task, like John Wick status. Like, you have to get back into this club, you have to find this the underwater caves of.

00;42;08;11 - 00;42;08;29
Speaker 2
Destroyed.

00;42;08;29 - 00;42;27;09
MURRAY
Planet like. And so it's like, I feel like even if nothing comes of that, like maybe he'll learn like, Oh, I don't need it or something like that, but like, it's like it gives him a OK. Well, first I need a ship, and then once I have a ship, I could I could find Grogu and check on

00;42;27;09 - 00;42;38;21
MURRAY
him, and then I could find like it was actually giving him a focus where he was just like wandering lost, you know, in a city, limping and just, yeah, yeah. He's like more gruff, too, right? Because it's like him.

00;42;38;25 - 00;42;41;29
MURRAY
When he does the bounty, he's like, just tell. Where it is or like.

00;42;42;11 - 00;42;44;04
Speaker 2
I'm leaving. Yeah.

00;42;45;17 - 00;42;47;01
JON
Just tell me. And he's like, I'm out.

00;42;47;05 - 00;42;48;08
Speaker 2
Bye bye. Yeah, yeah.

00;42;48;29 - 00;43;04;04
JON
And to James's point about Aragorn, I really do think they're setting him up to be the potential heir because he has a connection to the Jedi. He has a connection to the ultra Orthodox Mandalorian. So you go by the old school creed.

00;43;04;04 - 00;43;20;20
JON
He has a connection to the new school Mandalorians and all these people understand him and they all need him for whatever thing that they're doing. So I feel like it's going to come down to that. And you know, now, as Mary was pointing out, he's got to go on a spiritual journey.

00;43;20;21 - 00;43;34;12
JON
He's got to go to the lake of whatever underneath Mandalore and The Mandalorian to, like, purify himself. And it's like, I'm sure that journey to the lake is probably going to be the basis for season three of The Mandalorian.

00;43;34;15 - 00;43;34;25
JON
You know?

00;43;36;12 - 00;43;59;15
JOSH
I want to say something controversial that I think to you, John, is especially going to be anathema. I think that the story we are getting from the book of Boba Fett with the Boba Fett character in particular is more of a macro, higher view, less personal story than The Mandalorian story is.

00;43;59;22 - 00;44;16;02
JOSH
I think The Mandalorian story is more character centric. I think the Boba Fett story is larger and less about the particular motivations of the character. I think that it's OK for his motivations to be painted in broader strokes.

00;44;16;07 - 00;44;16;18
JON
Sure.

00;44;16;19 - 00;44;17;00
JOSH
Well.

00;44;17;13 - 00;44;35;04
JON
I wanted to shoot this film really quickly because it's not a big point, but it's occurred to me. Do you think they might pull a Darth Vader with Boba Fett? We're like, they're setting up like him, taking control of all of these things in a macro sense to set up a major conflict that could take place in

00;44;35;04 - 00;44;42;04
JON
between the original trilogy in the sequel trilogy. And then he could make a big bad and like other seasons of Mandalorian or whatever.

00;44;42;05 - 00;44;43;07
Speaker 2
Yeah, I don't know.

00;44;43;13 - 00;44;51;11
JOSH
That's a hard time with the idea that he returns to being a bad guy because it seems weird to bother making him break good or whatever. And then.

00;44;51;17 - 00;44;52;05
JON
I agree.

00;44;52;07 - 00;44;53;27
JOSH
Go bad again. Murray Yeah.

00;44;53;27 - 00;45;17;18
MURRAY
I was wondering if they are setting up. Some like this is just like to set up something where Boba Fett will carry on within the the Mando universe. Like this is almost like a bridge gap thing. But what you were saying about like the the macro versus like the the zoomed in, it's like it kind of has

00;45;17;18 - 00;45;39;27
MURRAY
that feeling of how personal the original trilogy was and so focused on Luke and his struggles and family and stuff. And then it's just like the the prequels come out and like, now join us as we like, talk about a dispute that goes wrong, but about a trade embargo that's happening overall everywhere.

00;45;39;28 - 00;45;58;25
MURRAY
Like, Wait, what? We were so close to the nitty gritty. And now we're talking about like the trade you're like. But it's like, yeah, negotiations between two mediating forces or something for the trade embargo and the like. Wait, what's so like a Star Wars kind of has that history of being like zoomed in and then it will

00;45;58;25 - 00;46;15;06
MURRAY
zoom out to say, like, All right, this is what else is going on in a much bigger aspect. Yeah. The only problem with that with Boba Fett is like, you have Mando, like zoomed in and what you're seeing like so many planets and galaxies.

00;46;15;06 - 00;46;19;06
MURRAY
And it's like, now let's show you the macro zoomed out world and they just show you tattoos.

00;46;19;11 - 00;46;21;26
Speaker 2
I'm like, No, no, no. Sure. Yeah.

00;46;22;17 - 00;46;42;20
JOSH
Yeah. I mean, it's just a different mode of storytelling that also may be sort of intentional, right? These are two completely different kinds of shows. You almost have to do that when you have two characters whose whose armor is basically identical and you have to go out of your way to distinguish them and along that line.

00;46;42;22 - 00;46;57;08
JOSH
John, you were talking way before about, you're always trying to figure out what is the intention, what are the creators trying to do? Here's what I think happened. I think they wanted to do a Star Wars TV show, and they wanted to do a bunch of cool stuff.

00;46;57;09 - 00;47;15;21
JOSH
They didn't want to start doing a show right out of the gate about Boba Fett because of all of the expectations and the baggage that that character has there. Like, OK, let's create a new character, do all the stuff that we liked about the Boba Fett character and kind of make it its own thing and then exploded

00;47;15;21 - 00;47;18;09
JOSH
like. And then it exploded in, like you said, rest.

00;47;18;15 - 00;47;19;09
RUSS
They got greedy.

00;47;19;28 - 00;47;22;20
Speaker 2
You say greedy. I want.

00;47;22;20 - 00;47;23;24
RUSS
This Disney. I don't know.

00;47;24;09 - 00;47;25;26
Speaker 2
No, no. But it's not.

00;47;25;26 - 00;47;27;00
JOSH
It's not Disney, though.

00;47;27;14 - 00;47;30;09
RUSS
It's it's Disney Plus. It's not Disney about sort.

00;47;30;09 - 00;47;30;13
Speaker 2
Of.

00;47;30;26 - 00;47;34;04
JOSH
There's sort of an undershot like there was always going to.

00;47;34;04 - 00;47;34;18
Speaker 2
Be.

00;47;34;19 - 00;47;52;20
JOSH
A show or movie about Boba Fett if you were making more Star Wars. So knowing that Boba Fett is a foregone conclusion, in my opinion, you have to do something to distinguish him. So they can't. As we said many times, they can't just make him the same character that they already created so successfully.

00;47;52;27 - 00;48;08;07
JOSH
So, so the Boba Fett character has to be a different character. The show has to be a different kind of show than the one we just got. And I think the real problem there is that that show we got was what everyone thought a Boba Fett show would be.

00;48;08;22 - 00;48;09;00
Speaker 2
Right?

00;48;09;02 - 00;48;22;09
JOSH
So if you have any sympathy for the creators, which I think we all do to some degree, because I think we all are creators in our own right, if you walk through the process when presented with these circumstances, I don't think it's a mystery.

00;48;22;09 - 00;48;34;16
JOSH
I think it's pretty understandable how we ended up where we ended up. I mean, that's not to say that there are other versions of this show that may have been more successful or worked a little bit better than the one that we actually got.

00;48;34;19 - 00;48;48;20
JOSH
But I guess for me, it's. Don't really have a problem with it. I prefer Mando as a character and as a show. What's intriguing to me is seeing this show that is grappling with all of the legacy stuff with all of the continuity stuff.

00;48;48;21 - 00;49;07;21
JOSH
Seeing that from that higher review level to me on its own is intriguing and kind of interesting, and I want to see it. And the only other thing I'll say is that and this is a Disney thing, the idea that the mode of storytelling does your now are these interconnected cinematic universes.

00;49;08;03 - 00;49;29;18
JOSH
I think it says a lot that to understand The Mandalorian, you will have to watch a whole other show to get the full experience. Like, I think to a degree, this is by design. It's a business model. What sort of used to be something fun like a treat, a reward for the longtime fans who are really paying

00;49;29;18 - 00;49;36;11
JOSH
attention that has become the default way of storytelling? Yeah.

00;49;36;27 - 00;49;38;22
JON
Like the Easter egg narrative?

00;49;39;02 - 00;49;40;15
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah, 100%.

00;49;40;26 - 00;49;44;20
JOSH
I have no idea who raise their hand when, but I'm going to say Murray John rest is us. All right?

00;49;45;10 - 00;49;46;28
MURRAY
Yep, it sounds good to me because I'm first.

00;49;46;29 - 00;49;48;20
Speaker 2
Murray John Russell.

00;49;50;01 - 00;50;01;25
MURRAY
What I what I was going to say is it's like it is kind of a lose lose. I know from my point of view because of Book of Boba Fett came out and it was exactly like Mandalorian season three.

00;50;01;25 - 00;50;13;00
MURRAY
And like all fucking, why didn't you just make Mandalorian season three? So like I, I understand why it had to be different, and I think there is something in the middle between Josh and Russ's point of view where it is.

00;50;13;10 - 00;50;32;17
MURRAY
Yeah, they had to tell something different, and they already made the the The Boba Fett show. They just called it Mandalorian. But whereas I won't say it's greedy. What I think is Star Wars has a tendency to maybe bite off more than they could chew sometimes or think that they're like they could work more magic than they

00;50;32;17 - 00;50;44;26
MURRAY
can. And like the very small example is like. In Rogue one, right, the first time you see Tarkin, you're like, oh, shit, that's like really impressive. And then like, see how good that was. Let's turn on the lights a little bit.

00;50;44;26 - 00;50;56;00
MURRAY
Let's have them in more and more scenes like, we got this. And it's just like, no, like you thought, like you got too arrogant, like you did. And then the movie ends with like the worst CGI human like that.

00;50;56;00 - 00;50;59;00
JOSH
You fuck you guys. All that stuff, mark for me that really worked.

00;50;59;23 - 00;51;04;07
Speaker 2
Really like they played like, speak the truth. Yeah, true. But you get.

00;51;04;07 - 00;51;14;21
MURRAY
What I'm saying, though. Like, it's like, you know, your first starts off. They know, they know how to play it. And then they're just like, Wait, we're we're like, really good at this guy. And then they keep pushing forward and then it's just.

00;51;14;21 - 00;51;16;07
Speaker 2
Like, leave it at a reflection of.

00;51;16;07 - 00;51;16;25
RUSS
The window.

00;51;16;25 - 00;51;18;06
Speaker 2
Yeah, you know, be like.

00;51;18;06 - 00;51;28;06
JOSH
Here's what I will say about that, that the movie wouldn't have worked without the presence of the Tarkin character. Like the movie made me appreciate the dark and character more.

00;51;28;10 - 00;51;28;24
Speaker 2
Yeah.

00;51;28;25 - 00;51;46;26
MURRAY
And what I'm saying is like the first time you you see the talking character, it looks like if he looks great. But what I'm saying is not to remove the character, but to. They thought that they could do more with the character in terms of animating it and making it look as good, whereas they just kept all

00;51;46;26 - 00;52;00;04
MURRAY
his scenes in that same vein to make it look really good. But I think they kind of had almost like a like a James Cameron like mindset of like, Oh, I can make the hill look so human. And then you're like, No, it's this is like uncanny.

00;52;00;04 - 00;52;01;19
Speaker 2
Valley or creepy. I feel like.

00;52;01;19 - 00;52;19;02
JOSH
I agree that the technology wasn't as good as the the genuine article, obviously. But yeah, but to me, it was really in service of the story. And I think had they kept like shooting him in shadow or in reflections, I feel like it would have been super conspicuous.

00;52;19;11 - 00;52;24;04
JOSH
So true for me. So for me, it's just like you either go with it or you don't.

00;52;24;21 - 00;52;39;10
MURRAY
And I think that's that's kind of what I'm saying is between like your point of view and Russ is on the book of Boba Fett is like the there's something like between like, no. Whereas you're saying with like talking like, no, they had to do it and they had to go all the way with this because otherwise

00;52;39;10 - 00;52;50;17
MURRAY
it doesn't work just like with Book of Boba Fett. But then, like with with Russell's point of view, it's almost like Mandalorian was so surprisingly well, like, Oh, we could, we could do a Boba Fett show like, we got this, we could totally do it.

00;52;50;17 - 00;53;07;08
MURRAY
And then it's just like, All right, like I like, I appreciate the the go to attitude of it, but it is not working as well as it did in your mind that it would. And then we're like, That's that's why I think the truth is in between in between you guys somewhere.

00;53;07;29 - 00;53;08;16
Speaker 2
I agree with that.

00;53;10;18 - 00;53;11;09
JOSH
Jonathan Ross.

00;53;11;21 - 00;53;14;28
JON
I actually forgot my original point was, but this is great because fantastic.

00;53;14;28 - 00;53;20;12
Speaker 2
I'm sorry. I think this fucked up when I shut my mouth. I'm not bad.

00;53;20;18 - 00;53;21;03
JON
So do I.

00;53;21;11 - 00;53;25;03
Speaker 2
No, I haven't. No, I shouldn't write it down. Yeah.

00;53;25;09 - 00;53;38;13
JON
What I will say, though, is that this kind of goes back to my original point and it's like, Well, what are the intentions? And I think Rogue one is a fantastic example of the struggle between intention and execution.

00;53;38;22 - 00;53;57;06
JON
And because I agree with Josh, we're bringing back Tarkin as a character was a really cool move. But as Murray points out, it takes you out of the movie like, Oh, that looks like CG and like, it makes you wonder, Well, maybe they should have just recast him with Charles Dance, and then you would have to see

00;53;57;22 - 00;53;58;28
JOSH
. That for me, wouldn't it?

00;53;58;29 - 00;54;15;20
JON
But either way, but the point is like, let's it's just like, it's just a question about execution. I see the intention because it works really well with the story, but then you gotta worry about execution. And with me, I'm actually OK with targeting because you have the whole movie to get used to it and so on.

00;54;15;20 - 00;54;29;07
JON
Like so by the end of the movie, I'm like, I believe it, he's takin. I no longer CG. But then at the end of the movie, yet again, I understand intention. They cut to Princess Lance phase and she's like, Oh, I don't need to smash cuts the credits.

00;54;29;17 - 00;54;31;29
JON
And as a viewer, huh? And then I.

00;54;34;04 - 00;54;36;09
Speaker 2
Was like, This is like the.

00;54;36;09 - 00;54;47;21
JON
Intention was clear, but the execution was enough for me. Wait, what? And then like, the movie just ends. And so it's just like. But that's the nature. I feel like a Star Wars is like, it's always pushing the boundary.

00;54;48;07 - 00;55;01;09
JON
They pushed so many boundaries of the prequels, but when you go, I try watching the attack of the Clones the other day. I couldn't. I couldn't get through a lot of it because I was like, Oh my God, this is just so bizarre as all the things we could go on and on and on about.

00;55;01;22 - 00;55;07;17
JON
It also just looks completely out of date, like it looks like a PlayStation two game as compared to the internet.

00;55;08;09 - 00;55;11;03
JOSH
VIDEO It's like, so I'm saying it's insane. It's like, What are you doing?

00;55;11;10 - 00;55;19;23
JON
But there's oh, we don't do something about like, there's still something about analog special effects that can go the long distance because it's tangible.

00;55;20;04 - 00;55;24;00
JOSH
And so I I I think that's I think that's a taste thing.

00;55;24;09 - 00;55;41;15
JON
It is a tasty recipes. But what I'm trying to say, it's like it's just like the intentions are seen. We know why he. You see, e.g., we know why he made S.G. Clone Troopers instead of putting dudes and clone troopers stormtrooper outfits like he did in the original movies again.

00;55;41;29 - 00;55;42;28
JON
I understand.

00;55;44;02 - 00;55;44;22
JOSH
I don't get that.

00;55;45;22 - 00;55;46;01
Speaker 2
No.

00;55;46;11 - 00;56;03;00
JON
I get it because I think he's trying to see, like, can we do people? And it's like an experiment. And four weren't for the prequels. We wouldn't have had a long series of mediocre to bad movies of CG that eventually gets to a pretty decent CG that eventually gets to Iron Man.

00;56;03;08 - 00;56;21;24
JON
You know, and I feel like that's all because of the prequels, but that's also a sacrificial play. And not to go too much on a rant, but I feel like that's kind of a conundrum that any Star Wars media has, whether it's Boba Fett or Mandalorian or whatever, it's like they have to make that decision between doing

00;56;21;24 - 00;56;36;04
JON
something that's believable to the eye and is serviceable on that level, execution wise, but also trying to push the technology to someplace near which the volume is actually kind of amazing when you think about.

00;56;36;05 - 00;56;48;21
JOSH
No, it is amazing. Yeah, I mean, sometimes you get the volume, sometimes you get CG that ages very poorly. The only thing that I would say, John, before I thought of Russ is that I think believability to the eye is overvalued, to a fault.

00;56;48;23 - 00;57;01;25
JOSH
I don't really care about believability, to the I guess my thing is, I think this is actually an agreement with what you were saying about Harken and Leia in Rogue one is that you just have to be internally consistent, right?

00;57;02;06 - 00;57;14;08
JOSH
Hmm. And I think the big problem with the prequels is that the esthetically they are such a departure from the original trilogy, and I'm not just talking in terms of design. I'm talking about like not shot on film.

00;57;14;24 - 00;57;29;26
JOSH
The lighting is completely different and it's not an evolution. It's it's a very harsh juxtaposition, which is fine if you are not pretending that they're supposed to be one cohesive whole. The thing that I always go back to is the stop motion effects in, say, The Empire Strikes Back.

00;57;29;29 - 00;57;31;18
JOSH
Those aren't believable.

00;57;31;19 - 00;57;40;29
Speaker 2
Do I right? I think so. It's got your nose bleeding. John knows you're right. Not not me. I can't.

00;57;41;17 - 00;57;42;18
JON
Quit. Russ, maybe.

00;57;42;18 - 00;57;43;17
Speaker 2
But I'm I'm actually.

00;57;44;02 - 00;57;54;07
JON
I'm with Josh on that. Like, this looks like it's like it's got motion. TomTom looks like a clay TomTom. Yeah, but there's still something about like the tangibility of stuff that's actually there.

00;57;54;08 - 00;58;00;17
JOSH
I agree with you. I agree with you. The only thing that I'm saying is that the only thing that I'm saying is that, yeah.

00;58;01;07 - 00;58;04;21
Speaker 2
So yeah, we have it. No joke is that it's not. It's not.

00;58;05;09 - 00;58;08;08
JOSH
It's not so cut and dry as all of them say, Russ.

00;58;08;16 - 00;58;14;14
RUSS
I don't remember it. My original point was, but in the meantime, I'll throw out a few ideas. Dark.

00;58;14;14 - 00;58;16;03
JOSH
I'm going to fuck it up at this hosting thing. All right.

00;58;16;03 - 00;58;17;17
MURRAY
I know it's going great. I love to.

00;58;17;22 - 00;58;17;27
Speaker 2
Make.

00;58;17;28 - 00;58;19;12
JOSH
Everyone forget what they're going to say.

00;58;19;12 - 00;58;32;09
RUSS
Oh, no, no, no. It's the engaging conversations that are coming from the panelists here that are just driving my mind and tangential directions like a whirlwind in here. You don't, you wouldn't imagine. So the Darksaber gets heavier if you work against it.

00;58;32;15 - 00;58;44;19
RUSS
Sounds like some Mandalorians are force users, you know? And so I did look it up. I looked it up while we were talking and in the legacy that's been a band in which, you know, has broken my heart significantly.

00;58;45;21 - 00;58;58;29
RUSS
Apparently, they say, like, there's been some Mandalorians that have gone off to be Jedi like, it's one example and there's some Jedi that became like The Mandalorian Knights. But if any, if we've learned anything about Star Wars like the Jedi should end or like, it doesn't matter.

00;58;58;29 - 00;59;13;27
RUSS
Like, maybe we need some, like a middle ground force user. So I'd like to see a Mandalorian force user just throwing it out there. It sounds like it sounds like that that blade gets a lot lighter when you let it move itself or allow the force to guide yourself.

00;59;14;02 - 00;59;21;21
RUSS
So there's there's things there where I'd love to see like that would make The Mandalorian agenda. I can't earn his name.

00;59;22;14 - 00;59;24;19
JOSH
You don't even know the name of your favorite character.

00;59;25;01 - 00;59;28;03
RUSS
Din Din. Yes, Din Goku.

00;59;28;22 - 00;59;30;19
Speaker 2
Go go that these names.

00;59;30;19 - 00;59;31;10
RUSS
Are hard to say.

00;59;31;29 - 00;59;32;15
Speaker 2
Yeah, I know.

00;59;32;18 - 00;59;35;15
RUSS
And basically would make him the greatest character of all Star Wars of all.

00;59;35;15 - 00;59;35;27
Speaker 2
Time.

00;59;36;10 - 00;59;38;25
RUSS
Which which is totally like The Mandalorian.

00;59;38;25 - 00;59;40;00
JOSH
And a Jedi. Yeah.

00;59;41;14 - 00;59;55;25
RUSS
Exactly. He's got a saber. He's got the coolest armor. Like everyone loves him. He's got he's got a little Yoda son. Like, it's going to be every Little Yoda backpack, like it's going to be the greatest and like, Wait until you see Yoda pop up in that little dome where the astro mech would be on.

00;59;57;04 - 01;00;00;00
Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, oh yeah.

01;00;00;02 - 01;00;05;29
RUSS
That brings me to the point. Yeah, so like the tail end of this episode is Let's Soup Up a Nabu Starfighter.

01;00;06;00 - 01;00;07;27
Speaker 2
I love that so much.

01;00;07;28 - 01;00;17;29
RUSS
It's just the most entertaining thing I've ever watched in. Like anything over. It's like Amy Sedaris is back. She's I think she's more engaging and I'm like, I'm really liking her character this time around. It took me a while.

01;00;17;29 - 01;00;19;03
RUSS
It's going to get used to her tone.

01;00;19;04 - 01;00;19;18
Speaker 2
Yeah.

01;00;20;21 - 01;00;21;07
JOSH
Tone. That's a.

01;00;21;07 - 01;00;21;29
Speaker 2
Little yeah. Yeah.

01;00;22;03 - 01;00;29;14
RUSS
But this time, I guess, because I've seen the rest of the other episodes, a book of Boba Fett, I'm like, No, this tone works now, like, I see.

01;00;29;14 - 01;00;30;14
Speaker 2
How I see how.

01;00;30;14 - 01;00;35;19
RUSS
Far it could go to not working. And now I'm like, No. Now I need this, I need a really serious show, yeah.

01;00;36;04 - 01;00;37;03
JOSH
It's not your therapy.

01;00;37;07 - 01;00;38;03
RUSS
You've been inoculated.

01;00;38;05 - 01;00;39;09
JOSH
You're like, Yeah, I get it. All right.

01;00;39;16 - 01;00;53;04
RUSS
Yeah. And and just like building this and like the technical talk, I love where it's like they're talking of things that clearly don't make sense doesn't matter. It's almost like borderline fantasy, hard sci fi, and it's like you're about to build the fastest ship for whatever reason.

01;00;53;04 - 01;01;07;17
RUSS
And it's just they're having fun. And like, you, almost forget that this guy's got a load of problems, a lot of weight on his shoulders, and it's just some of really engaging Star Wars fantasy like shipbuilding play that I've wanted for a long time.

01;01;07;23 - 01;01;10;29
RUSS
And it's like, you know, he feels the need for speed. They all do like like.

01;01;11;01 - 01;01;11;29
Speaker 2
I want to get.

01;01;12;02 - 01;01;13;15
RUSS
Got some Top Gun going on here.

01;01;13;15 - 01;01;15;02
Speaker 2
It's all great. It's like.

01;01;15;02 - 01;01;30;19
RUSS
That rocketeer here when when he flies next to the plane and right, there's a there's a kids like, it's that moment, which is a great throwback because that was the director. Johnson was one of the original designers of the Boba Fett armor.

01;01;30;20 - 01;01;32;14
RUSS
Yes. Yes. Who'd like to run this year? Yeah.

01;01;32;16 - 01;01;32;28
Speaker 2
Yes.

01;01;33;03 - 01;01;33;21
JOSH
Joe Johnston.

01;01;33;21 - 01;01;47;06
RUSS
Yeah, Joe Johnson. Yes. Johnson. So it's like, Oh, that's that might be a throwback. I don't know if it actually is, but it's like there's a lot there. And that was just fun. That's I have to say, like, I had a lot of fun watching it, like I was glued to the screen during that sequence.

01;01;47;12 - 01;01;49;12
RUSS
And the first time that's happened in quite a while hasn't.

01;01;49;12 - 01;01;51;20
MURRAY
Been fun for a while. I feel like right now.

01;01;52;07 - 01;01;54;04
JON
Yeah, this just the funds, the big work.

01;01;54;06 - 01;01;55;09
Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

01;01;56;01 - 01;02;04;10
JOSH
Seeing that like hot rotted rehabbed Naboo Starfighter on screen next to two x X-Wings, I was like, This is fucking awesome.

01;02;04;11 - 01;02;06;06
Speaker 2
That's good. That's real good. Yeah.

01;02;06;15 - 01;02;24;27
JON
Yeah. 22 little notes of trivia. The little joy that helps them out is the is a droid from a video game, which I thought was interesting. Fallen Order is the same droid that the character has, and also the X-Wing pilot, the younger guy he was the body double for Luke Skywalker.

01;02;25;06 - 01;02;26;06
JON
Then The Mandalorian.

01;02;26;14 - 01;02;28;05
MURRAY
I knew I recognized that face.

01;02;28;21 - 01;02;30;25
Speaker 2
Yeah. Moving on. Go ahead.

01;02;31;02 - 01;02;31;16
JOSH
James.

01;02;31;29 - 01;02;47;21
JAMES
Yeah, I was just, I mean, I had something I was going to say before, but I'll get to it. But just to go for Russell's point, I think having a Mandalorian force wielder would really go a long way, considering that the Fordjour said that he should give up the spear because the dark saber is a more fitting

01;02;47;21 - 01;02;51;01
JAMES
weapon for him. More and more, I forget what she said, but it's like a more noble.

01;02;51;01 - 01;02;52;17
Speaker 2
one, a noble, noble weapon.

01;02;52;17 - 01;03;07;01
JAMES
Weapon for us. So we're kind of going in that direction, and I would love to see a show with both of those X-Wing pilots doing tops in space because I love Paul Lee. He was the other X-Wing pilot and he's fantastic.

01;03;07;25 - 01;03;19;04
JAMES
I think my original point I raised my hand was just to say, like the happy medium of a show, that we're not going to get now because in hindsight, you can see this things. But the first season of The Mandalorian, he should have been like, We don't know who this guy is.

01;03;19;04 - 01;03;35;02
JAMES
And the reveal would have been when he said his name is Boba Fett. And then we go on the mission of why did he change his armor lights and everything? Then he should be made the assumption that like, Oh, I'm on Boba Fett, you finally said his name and then we have that's where we pick Boba Fett

01;03;35;02 - 01;03;36;00
JAMES
up with is my.

01;03;36;29 - 01;03;38;02
Speaker 2
Got to hire.

01;03;38;02 - 01;03;39;03
RUSS
This guy, hire.

01;03;39;03 - 01;03;39;08
Speaker 2
This?

01;03;39;08 - 01;03;41;11
MURRAY
Yeah, you guys are really good at writing Star Wars.

01;03;42;01 - 01;03;42;15
Speaker 2
I wonder if.

01;03;42;15 - 01;03;53;19
JON
That was get him in. That was one of the original intentions of the show, but they changed their mind before. Maybe they did it because they say his name like Din Djarin. It's like, that feels like it should be a moment, but it's not.

01;03;53;24 - 01;03;54;11
Speaker 2
It's not.

01;03;54;21 - 01;03;56;03
JON
You know, in the show.

01;03;56;19 - 01;04;04;12
JOSH
Well, that I mean, first off, I mean, that's a really cool idea. The other thing, too, is that again, I think there was this idea, they were.

01;04;04;12 - 01;04;05;02
JON
The testing.

01;04;05;02 - 01;04;08;02
JOSH
Boba Fett. Yeah. Like they were saving Boba Fett.

01;04;08;07 - 01;04;08;27
Speaker 2
From this.

01;04;09;08 - 01;04;09;19
JOSH
Another.

01;04;09;19 - 01;04;12;11
JON
They're playing with him to take him out of the toy box to play with.

01;04;12;11 - 01;04;13;12
Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah.

01;04;13;23 - 01;04;32;15
JOSH
But yeah, I mean, in retrospect, I mean, that would have been really pretty cool, though. I suppose the only problem would be if you're being consistent, then you would recognize the voice. But even then, like because I mean, I have like a voice he could have like a voice changer, like the helmet Leia had in return to

01;04;32;15 - 01;04;35;12
JOSH
the night where the voice is completely different. Mm hmm.

01;04;35;24 - 01;04;42;17
JAMES
I mean, it could also, if you want to go like, really like again, we're fans thinking now of something that's not going to happen. But like the other thing would be that is that.

01;04;42;25 - 01;04;44;00
Speaker 2
They Boba.

01;04;44;00 - 01;04;46;05
JAMES
Fett was like a Boba Fett, like the captain.

01;04;46;05 - 01;04;47;25
Speaker 2
Is going to happen though, right? Yeah.

01;04;49;15 - 01;04;57;28
JAMES
I mean, you could have gone with that. The idea I just proposed, but you could have been a dread pirate Roberts thing where the original Boba Fett died. And this guy is Boba Fett for all we know now.

01;04;58;09 - 01;05;01;16
Speaker 2
And he gets passed down the idea again.

01;05;01;17 - 01;05;04;03
RUSS
Get him in the writers room. I want to see some updates.

01;05;04;06 - 01;05;06;12
Speaker 2
Yeah. Anybody want a peanut.

01;05;10;05 - 01;05;11;05
JON
Though? Mitt Romney, who I mean.

01;05;11;27 - 01;05;30;10
MURRAY
They hit on a line. It's a great line in this episode that I don't think it's a metal line. I don't think it's anything. But it also inadvertently points a finger at some of what Star Wars tries to do and what we've been saying about how they they're always trying to, like, keep pumping out volume and kind

01;05;30;10 - 01;05;47;24
MURRAY
of pushing the limits. But like for. What the master armor's name is, but she says something like persistence for this without insight yields the same results or something like that. And I feel like, you know, if they're they just are like, No, we have to make a new show.

01;05;47;24 - 01;06;01;27
MURRAY
We have to make new content. We just have to do that. And then you are going to run into some issues where you're like, All right, well, we need the Boba Fett show because that's what everyone wants. But we already made the Boba Fett show, but it's The Mandalorian, like, you know, and so it just like has

01;06;01;27 - 01;06;13;24
MURRAY
a little bit of that. Like, I don't think it's any sort of Easter egg. I just think it's like they accidentally touched on like, yeah, put a finger on their own problem and like a great line that I just absolutely love.

01;06;13;26 - 01;06;30;27
JOSH
Well, well, maybe that's why these two shows are so closely interlinked, because it is basically the same. I mean, they're inseparable. The Mandalorian came from Boba Fett, and then when they bring in Boba Fett, you, like, have to somehow have a connection with Mandalorian.

01;06;31;05 - 01;06;32;26
MURRAY
It's like eating its own tail or something.

01;06;32;26 - 01;06;34;16
JOSH
Yeah, no. It is weird, John.

01;06;35;05 - 01;06;40;19
JON
Since you just brought that up. I know they're going to be making an Obi Wan show and they're going to be making a show.

01;06;40;19 - 01;06;42;06
JOSH
Good show that's made baby.

01;06;42;13 - 01;06;42;21
Speaker 2
Yeah.

01;06;43;21 - 01;06;46;27
JOSH
So I'm counting down the days to that one.

01;06;47;04 - 01;07;00;18
JON
Yeah, exactly. So but. I wouldn't necessarily say that. Those two characters would be completely linked. Even though they are two lone Jedi Purge you now.

01;07;01;02 - 01;07;04;21
MURRAY
So what's her name is connected to Mando.

01;07;04;21 - 01;07;06;20
JON
And she's connected to Mando? Yeah.

01;07;07;05 - 01;07;11;11
JOSH
So but isn't she also basically connected to Obi-Wan? Because she.

01;07;11;11 - 01;07;11;23
Speaker 2
Oh yeah.

01;07;12;11 - 01;07;13;22
JOSH
She was out of control and own words?

01;07;13;26 - 01;07;14;02
MURRAY
Yeah.

01;07;14;18 - 01;07;30;24
JON
But but even still, like I never watched any of the the cartoons, but I know enough to know that her her character journey posts Revenge of the Sith. Whatever probably won't have much to do with Obi-Wan Kenobi. Like, I would be surprised if she shows up.

01;07;30;26 - 01;07;49;18
JON
Well, I wouldn't be too shocked, but it seems like they might not ever cross paths ever again because they seem like two distinct characters. And I feel like Mando and Boba are becoming two distinct characters, but I think the difference is that Mando is distinct, and Boba is just different.

01;07;50;00 - 01;07;50;26
JON
And I don't think they'll.

01;07;50;26 - 01;07;51;07
MURRAY
Be able.

01;07;51;07 - 01;08;10;09
JON
To. And I feel like they might know Boba in six distinct then. And also that this is this is what I remember my post, my point from, like 40 minutes ago. But you know, Marie, we're texting after the show ended and I was like, It's kind of like, if you're because Mary, you brought up in the last

01;08;10;09 - 01;08;15;10
JON
episode or so, whatever. But like one, other horror movies remind you of better horror movies.

01;08;15;11 - 01;08;15;27
MURRAY
Yes, thank you.

01;08;15;27 - 01;08;23;28
JON
I was like, and I was like, Yeah, it's kind of like at this point in the show. If they're if you're watching like Scream, which is a fantastic movie. I, by the way, I love the book of Boba Fett.

01;08;23;28 - 01;08;29;00
JON
I'm really enjoying it. But if they're like, meanwhile at the Overlook Hotel and they just show you the.

01;08;29;00 - 01;08;30;00
Speaker 2
Shame and.

01;08;30;14 - 01;08;32;17
MURRAY
They show you their property, yeah, yeah.

01;08;32;17 - 01;08;35;07
JON
And you kind of like, I think I want to stick with The Shining and.

01;08;35;24 - 01;08;36;06
Speaker 2
You know.

01;08;37;12 - 01;08;47;07
JON
And I feel like with Boba Fett, I'm enjoying it. I'm going to keep watching it. I love all the actors and everything about it, but they just showed us something that was amazing, that had nothing to do with it.

01;08;47;07 - 01;08;52;04
JON
And it's like, Oh yeah, there's still like another show after this. Like, I can't wait to that comes out.

01;08;52;16 - 01;08;52;28
Speaker 2
You know?

01;08;52;28 - 01;08;54;00
MURRAY
Yeah, yeah, exactly.

01;08;54;20 - 01;08;55;03
JOSH
James.

01;08;55;22 - 01;09;08;08
JAMES
Oh yeah. I was just going to say to something. John said that the Asoka show, I guess, will be linked some possibly to Boba Fett and Mando, aside from her length. But they cast someone as Sabine and the Asoka.

01;09;08;16 - 01;09;19;15
JAMES
So and Sabine was a character from Rebels, and that character actually had the dark saber. The last time we saw it before we saw it in Darth Moff Gideon sounds interesting. She's the person who was in the mob, Gideon.

01;09;19;21 - 01;09;21;17
JOSH
So maybe it was interesting.

01;09;21;22 - 01;09;36;19
MURRAY
In this like Easter eggs, everything has to be connected because of Marvel. I just do not think that they will have enough restraint to not have, like all sorts of cameos all over the place and people crossing into other people's shows and.

01;09;36;29 - 01;09;50;24
MURRAY
And I don't I actually don't want that. I want them to be individual shows because there's nothing too bad worse than being like, Oh, I want to watch the new Spider-Man. Let me first watch these 26 other movies and TV shows so I can understand the last Spider-Man movie.

01;09;50;25 - 01;09;51;24
RUSS
Thank you, Stan Lee.

01;09;52;25 - 01;09;58;08
JOSH
I don't. I don't like it. I don't agree with it. I will accept it.

01;10;00;04 - 01;10;00;25
JAMES
Well, Josh was.

01;10;00;25 - 01;10;02;00
JOSH
Quoting Lando and Solo.

01;10;02;00 - 01;10;03;17
Speaker 2
I don't know if. Yeah, yeah.

01;10;05;27 - 01;10;06;21
JOSH
Sorry, James. Go ahead.

01;10;06;22 - 01;10;15;22
JAMES
Well, I saying we we talk like line. Like I was saying, like, I'm gambling even money. If in season two of Boba Fett, we get Harrison Ford showing up as Han Solo somewhere.

01;10;16;10 - 01;10;17;25
JOSH
I would not be shocked if.

01;10;18;09 - 01;10;22;24
Speaker 2
You think that's the rumor. I think that's the big console.

01;10;23;03 - 01;10;24;12
JOSH
I think I was 50.

01;10;24;12 - 01;10;27;18
MURRAY
If or they knew so little kid, maybe not Han Solo.

01;10;27;21 - 01;10;32;08
JON
That's what I was thinking. I was thinking the young Han Solo might show up and Obi-Wan. Well.

01;10;32;16 - 01;10;37;12
JAMES
It's like suiting up to play Indy again. So all we have to do is card him over to the other soundstage.

01;10;37;12 - 01;10;57;03
JON
And guess so. No, it makes you wonder if the Darksaber, because you mentioned the Sabine is I mean, so the so you have her Bo-Katan, Boba, Mando, Asoka, whatever. But like, it makes you wonder if the dark saber is kind of going to become something of like the one ring where it's like.

01;10;57;10 - 01;10;58;01
MURRAY
That's where I was.

01;10;58;02 - 01;11;06;22
JON
Have you ones like focusing their story? Like, like all these stories are going to culminate to like a an Avengers Infinity War thing with these shows about the Darksaber?

01;11;07;00 - 01;11;20;29
MURRAY
It's possible. And it would it would make sense because you have almost like the the ring like corrupts, right? That's like what it does. And you have like the hobbits that are, from my understanding, only know the movies.

01;11;20;29 - 01;11;33;20
MURRAY
I don't know any of the books or anything like that, but they're kind of almost like so innocent that they could or a pure of heart that they are easier to like, withstand it type thing from my and like.

01;11;33;26 - 01;11;45;16
MURRAY
Whereas Mando is not, you know, of pure heart or anything like that, but he is a character who instantly upon getting it. When he finds out that it's of importance, he's like, Oh, here you can have it. I don't want it.

01;11;45;16 - 01;11;51;16
MURRAY
It's like, Oh, that's all the power is like, No, then take it. It's like, No, we have to win in combat. It's like, I yield like, fuck, I don't care like so.

01;11;52;12 - 01;11;53;18
Speaker 2
So like it.

01;11;53;18 - 01;11;54;07
MURRAY
Is like.

01;11;54;07 - 01;11;55;21
JOSH
At some fucking Klingon bullshit man.

01;11;59;05 - 01;12;02;15
Speaker 2
Yeah, I think you're fucking sorry. I don't want it. I don't want it. Yeah.

01;12;03;07 - 01;12;25;08
MURRAY
And so like, I think that it is like it could culminate into which, like the only person that who who basically can't use it because he doesn't fully know how to, because he won't like let go or whatever is the only one that's capable of like wielding it without it, like being power hungry or or something.

01;12;25;08 - 01;12;42;05
MURRAY
And he I can't see unless it's really some sort of shock value. We give up on this TV show. So we're going to like they tank it like of Mando being corrupted by power. You know, like someone who doesn't want power, I don't think we'll be corrupted by it.

01;12;42;05 - 01;12;45;15
MURRAY
Like you guys were saying, well, like Boba, like wants.

01;12;46;18 - 01;12;59;02
JOSH
What's? But it's interesting, though, because his reasoning because Boba Fett's reasoning for wanting to take over having that power, I think is reasonable sounding. I think it's.

01;12;59;02 - 01;12;59;10
Speaker 2
Yeah.

01;12;59;17 - 01;13;05;27
JOSH
I think it's coming from a good place. But that said, I mean, yeah, I mean, maybe he will. The power will corrupt him. I don't know.

01;13;06;07 - 01;13;19;22
JON
But yeah, I actually think it's open enough that it I'm not saying this is going to happen. I'm not putting money down, but I feel like there is. There's still something there, though, because noble intentions, you know, and kind of like Darth Vader and kind of like Michael Corleone.

01;13;19;22 - 01;13;31;06
JON
And I just feel like Boba Fett's like everyone's a bunch of idiots. I know how to do it, you know? Yeah, but he doesn't. But exactly. And it's and he's thinking about it very pragmatically. He's not thinking about like giving people a better time.

01;13;31;06 - 01;13;33;10
JON
He still expects people to pay him tribute.

01;13;33;28 - 01;13;35;05
MURRAY
It's not exactly the same.

01;13;35;17 - 01;13;50;10
JON
Yeah. So there's still something there that like they haven't explored yet because they're choosing not to show us that aspect of him yet, which is they aren't talking about intention, like, well, why? Why, what? What are they showing us?

01;13;50;10 - 01;13;57;05
JON
Why? Why are they choosing to show this instead of that? And it's like, I think it's because they're putting in something, so there's something up their sleeve that they're waiting to reveal about him.

01;13;57;15 - 01;14;10;27
JOSH
Yeah. Well, again, I do think, John, you mentioned this last week. I think we're in for an interesting reveal of some kind in episode seven of the last episode of this season that may give us new context for everything that we've seen thus far.

01;14;11;15 - 01;14;14;03
JOSH
Russ and then I want to move to closing thoughts.

01;14;14;12 - 01;14;27;15
RUSS
Sure, I feel like all that said, I think the show that they need to make was the book of Big Bib Fortuna. And so basically, like, it opens like and we have before tuna, and it's really like the battle for jobless throne.

01;14;27;15 - 01;14;30;01
RUSS
Is the show like, that's Game of Thrones.

01;14;30;01 - 01;14;30;16
JOSH
You might say.

01;14;31;04 - 01;14;38;24
RUSS
That to me is like the real like, like, who will be the heir to, you know, the slugs throne. Like, that's that to me would be an interesting show that I would watch.

01;14;39;18 - 01;14;42;21
MURRAY
And because of Boba Fett's bloodline, he could ride a sarlacc.

01;14;43;10 - 01;14;44;02
RUSS
Exactly.

01;14;44;06 - 01;14;46;20
Speaker 2
So that's sort of sarlacc.

01;14;46;20 - 01;14;47;01
RUSS
Oh, sorry.

01;14;47;15 - 01;14;48;21
Speaker 2
Sorry, yes, sorry.

01;14;48;21 - 01;14;49;19
JOSH
It took me a second, but I got.

01;14;50;25 - 01;15;05;14
RUSS
But I think one of the one of the key factors that I'm realizing is the reason why Boba Fett worked in the past is because you don't see him much, even in the comics, like the best Boba Fett comics or when he happens upon like he shows up later, like a story's already going and he shows up

01;15;05;14 - 01;15;22;12
RUSS
on Page four because he's got a bounty in that area or something, or he's going to be injecting the story. It's kind of like a Judge Dredd philosophy where, like, the story is Judge Justice, an interesting character. It's the events he gets thrown into to either equalize or correct or fix.

01;15;23;10 - 01;15;30;22
RUSS
He really is the conduit he's more of. Like, you know, like like the Rod Serling of telling a story like Boba Fett is something they can kind of balance things as a.

01;15;30;22 - 01;15;32;11
JOSH
Facilitator of the story.

01;15;32;17 - 01;15;48;11
RUSS
And you could tell any story. And the mistake they made was thinking that they would be able to invent a new character on the on the structure, a foundation of the little that we know about Boba Fett versus have him show up in little bits and pieces that he should not have had his own show is what

01;15;48;11 - 01;15;59;14
RUSS
I'm getting from what they've been able to do. And even this, the Star Wars tales and books, very small pieces. That's what I want to throw out there that, like he works best in small chunks, showing up, doing his job.

01;15;59;17 - 01;16;01;09
RUSS
And that's interesting, and that's what they could have.

01;16;01;13 - 01;16;10;19
JOSH
I am in total agreement with you. That's something that I said in the very first episode. The reason that Boba Fett worked was because he he worked in small doses and.

01;16;10;19 - 01;16;11;09
RUSS
Teensy tiny.

01;16;11;09 - 01;16;24;18
JOSH
And this is a mistake that arguably goes all the way back to George Lucas, who seeing the popularity of this character, decided to make the vets a larger part of the films and the prequels.

01;16;24;22 - 01;16;27;26
RUSS
Boba Fett is the one ring. He's he's you try to wield the power Boba.

01;16;27;26 - 01;16;32;03
Speaker 2
Fett and consume a storyteller that tries.

01;16;32;03 - 01;16;33;24
RUSS
To it tries to handle him.

01;16;33;25 - 01;16;58;10
JOSH
My closing thought is seeing the juxtaposition of how successful an original character like Mando was compared to, I would say, less successful or less satisfying portrayal of an established character. The silver lining for me is that it actually gets me excited about a bunch of these new shows that they've announced that I really had no investment in

01;16;58;11 - 01;17;16;16
JOSH
. I think there's one that's going to be set in the High Republic era about a Jedi that I know nothing about. I'm interested in the idea that they can make something compelling when they're not wedded to the canon or the expectations that actually makes me more excited for the other things that they have in the works.

01;17;16;17 - 01;17;35;24
JOSH
Whereas before I was only really excited for Kenobi, and now I'm kind of excited for even the Cassian Andor show, like the idea that that's a character that I didn't necessarily need to see more of, but the idea that they can really do something with him because he's a new character that we've only seen the very end

01;17;35;24 - 01;17;38;05
JOSH
of his life. So I mean, he can really he can be anything.

01;17;38;06 - 01;17;54;22
JON
I think the Cassian Andor show might be kind of like what you were talking about with the macro. I feel like that is an opportunity for them to show the established. The rebellion that they never quite were able to do because Rogue one, the rebellion was in full swing and it led right into a New Hope.

01;17;55;05 - 01;17;56;13
JON
So and plus.

01;17;56;22 - 01;18;01;18
JOSH
Oh well then we're going to see, like Monmouth Mall, we're going to see maybe some Jimmy Smits, then I'm excited about that.

01;18;01;20 - 01;18;07;00
JON
Yeah, you're going to see I mean, it's like you're going to see some like maybe some tinker tailor sort of stuff, but Star Wars.

01;18;07;10 - 01;18;08;20
Speaker 2
So like, if we.

01;18;08;20 - 01;18;14;29
JOSH
Get if The Mandalorian is the Star Wars straight up western, I'm really hoping the Cassian Andor is.

01;18;14;29 - 01;18;15;29
JAMES
The spy.

01;18;16;07 - 01;18;19;12
JOSH
Spy versus spy of Star Wars.

01;18;19;20 - 01;18;20;10
JON
That would be cool.

01;18;20;16 - 01;18;44;08
MURRAY
For a closing. Thought it made me. Obviously excited for Mando. It did give me some relief that. The stuff that I'm not liking in Boba Fett wasn't like them just being lazy, like it's it's annoying that its specific choices that they're making with these like, you know, again, like I was saying, the flat TV like show kind

01;18;44;08 - 01;18;55;15
MURRAY
of vibe to it, but that it is a choice is a little bit more comforting. But it is maddening to be like, Oh, now we could do so much better, as you'll see, but we're not going to. So that's that's annoying.

01;18;55;15 - 01;19;04;17
MURRAY
But I think that it just overall made me excited that it's. That that's that vibe and.

01;19;04;17 - 01;19;06;12
JOSH
Like, it's still there, it's still there.

01;19;07;17 - 01;19;16;04
MURRAY
Yeah, yeah, so that's what's really exciting to me. And yeah, I guess that's it before I go ranting about a potential other shows I don't know about so.

01;19;18;10 - 01;19;21;07
JOSH
And what else? Any closing thoughts?

01;19;22;02 - 01;19;26;13
RUSS
Yeah, I would like to see a disintegration. The next two episodes.

01;19;27;13 - 01;19;31;12
Speaker 2
But you know, well, that I think.

01;19;31;14 - 01;19;45;22
RUSS
A cigaret somewhere. I mean, I really think the question was asked before what could be done to make me like this show or to make me change our mind if Boba Fett turns. And if this whole if this goodness was a ruse, I'm on board.

01;19;45;22 - 01;19;56;15
RUSS
If he's played everyone, including myself, including the audience, and he turns and is just like, No, I am at the core, a despicable, evil person. I will take back my.

01;19;56;24 - 01;19;58;18
Speaker 2
My, my own track.

01;19;58;18 - 01;20;01;05
RUSS
My previous thoughts disintegrate someone.

01;20;01;12 - 01;20;17;03
JOSH
I mean, first of all, that's sort of the ultimate Chekhov's gun that was placed way back in 1980. And I think if you're going to do a Boba Fett show, you got to show him disintegrate something. So, so so now that you bring it up, I'd be shocked if we don't see if he.

01;20;17;03 - 01;20;17;16
MURRAY
Doesn't.

01;20;17;24 - 01;20;18;03
JOSH
Have it.

01;20;18;04 - 01;20;18;21
Speaker 2
Yeah, but we.

01;20;18;21 - 01;20;24;21
JON
Have Mando disintegrate like half a dozen people in his show, so maybe they won't do it because we've seen.

01;20;24;23 - 01;20;27;18
Speaker 2
People cheering, have we?

01;20;28;01 - 01;20;33;21
JON
Yeah, his long rifle when he's shooting the Jawad's and he's shooting the transmissions they just turned just when they get hit.

01;20;33;21 - 01;20;35;17
RUSS
Yeah, yeah, that's the disintegration.

01;20;35;29 - 01;20;37;28
JON
We've already seen it. Yeah.

01;20;39;12 - 01;20;40;20
Speaker 2
Still, though, still don't because we're.

01;20;40;20 - 01;20;41;23
JOSH
Not expecting.

01;20;41;23 - 01;20;42;14
MURRAY
Boba Fake.

01;20;43;06 - 01;20;47;02
JOSH
Because I don't think we're expecting to your point this Boba Fett to do something, do.

01;20;47;02 - 01;20;48;05
Speaker 2
That. Yeah, I.

01;20;48;09 - 01;20;49;22
JON
Oh, I think he went to a bad guy.

01;20;49;25 - 01;20;53;00
RUSS
I think the only glimmer we got was that biker gang destruction.

01;20;53;13 - 01;20;57;13
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah. So if that was like a silver bullet?

01;20;57;27 - 01;21;00;25
JON
Yeah. Yeah, there's a lot of potential in the show.

01;21;00;25 - 01;21;08;07
RUSS
But if it's a long game, if it's a long game. Props to them. But if it's not total disappointment from Ross, I.

01;21;08;07 - 01;21;22;27
JON
Feel like this is a long game show because as we've seen with this show, with this episode, they specifically made a choice to bring back Bryce Dallas Howard to give a Mandalorian feel to a Mandalorian episode. So it's like they're making choices there.

01;21;22;28 - 01;21;30;29
JON
So it's like. So there is a reason why Boba Fett is going by so slowly. What if they're choosing to pull it out?

01;21;31;11 - 01;21;50;19
MURRAY
It really not like a tangible bringing that up is like Mandalorian. Like in this this episode, it was like he was able to have slow moments almost like like the jaws like dinner table scene, right? Like, he could have just a quiet moment with the kid in front of him while he's looking at this, and it hits

01;21;50;19 - 01;22;08;03
MURRAY
different than the quiet, slow mo movements moments that happen in the The Boba Fett show, like even the the previous episode, which was all of our favorites until until this one, like even one, they have like a moment that was slow, maybe between the two of them.

01;22;08;14 - 01;22;21;26
MURRAY
Like, why are you like trying to? Why aren't we attacking them now when they have that kind of conversation before they get get his ship back, you're like, it doesn't hit the same. You're almost like, Why is this?

01;22;21;26 - 01;22;35;02
MURRAY
This is like, why are they slowing down? Like, what is going on? It doesn't seem to hit the same as like when Mando is just like reflecting on like a commercial flight with a kid kicking his seats. I think it's like it's just like it hits different.

01;22;35;02 - 01;22;45;18
MURRAY
It doesn't seem like it's slowing the showdown. It, like somehow still keeps you cap even more captivated than a slow scene. And Boba Fett, we're just like, All right, what is going on here? What is the point of the scene?

01;22;45;25 - 01;22;47;28
MURRAY
But that could just be projection on myself?

01;22;47;29 - 01;23;07;10
JOSH
No. Well, I mean, I think it's also because we have we have two seasons of development and living with this character, so a small moment with him will be more significant versus that scene you were referencing in the last episode, I think had a lot of practical, pragmatic, heavy lifting to do to make the show work like

01;23;07;10 - 01;23;18;28
JOSH
it was explaining why these characters are together and why the whole show is happening, essentially. So it is a quiet moment, but the scene is not like a grace note, like the scene is really doing some heavy lifting.

01;23;18;28 - 01;23;27;28
JOSH
I think that that's the difference between the two, but I do take your point. It'd be nice to have a little more something to hold onto with the Boba Fett show proper.

01;23;28;03 - 01;23;43;12
JON
I think we just inadvertently had we realized that maybe the whole point of showing his character the way that they've shown it, Boba Fett, is that they're just trying to show that he is the most highly pragmatic kind of like character that they're developing right now.

01;23;43;12 - 01;23;58;14
JON
So everything that he's doing, it's like scheming. So it's just like, All right, I'm going to get the tribes together so I can get the spice trade so I can get some powers so I can get whatever. And everything he's doing is it's very much like this is going to get me this.

01;23;58;14 - 01;24;02;06
JON
This is going to get me that this is going to get me there. And it's all about accumulating his power.

01;24;02;09 - 01;24;06;20
RUSS
Our I hope he wants to kill Han Solo with that. This is like going after him.

01;24;07;11 - 01;24;10;29
JON
I thought isn't sure if he cares about Han Solo. That's the thing. He's I think he's.

01;24;11;06 - 01;24;12;23
MURRAY
Just about a job. Yeah, yeah.

01;24;12;23 - 01;24;26;16
JON
He's just got it. And so he's like, I don't Amando. I think what they're trying to show as a pragmatic person, becoming human. And I feel like with Boba Fett, he was just like a ghost before anything. And.

01;24;26;22 - 01;24;37;25
JON
And I think they're just trying to show I don't know what they're trying to show you. That goes back to the intentions. But I think that the pragmatic nature of him is kind of like the focus of what they're trying to give us with this character.

01;24;38;00 - 01;24;44;16
JON
So I feel like that's why that scene hits differently, Josh, is because that that scene is like about why he wants to run a business.

01;24;44;26 - 01;24;46;29
Speaker 2
And compete against cheaper car.

01;24;48;06 - 01;24;50;29
JON
Like, it's not about his troubles, it's like being a new father.

01;24;51;02 - 01;24;54;07
Speaker 2
You know, or something like that. It's like, it's like.

01;24;54;11 - 01;25;03;14
JON
Oh, well, that ship has the best firepower, so I need it. And then if I get it out, maximize my profits to run this planet because it's like, it's all pragmatic.

01;25;03;21 - 01;25;10;02
MURRAY
Yeah, because if I saw Boba Fett and Fennec building a ship, I would just be like, Fuck what is this episode? So it was like, Oh.

01;25;10;03 - 01;25;12;25
Speaker 2
Shit, OK, I like it. Like, Yeah, I'm a.

01;25;12;25 - 01;25;30;01
MURRAY
Little torn when when humans speak the language of other aliens in the language of the other aliens like that threw me off and solo to where Han talks in. Yeah. And then how Amy Sedaris like speaks Jawa. Like I always like, yeah, I.

01;25;30;01 - 01;25;31;05
RUSS
Always just speech.

01;25;31;06 - 01;25;40;05
Speaker 2
Funny. Yes. Yes, yes. Yes. They're really funny. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, OK, we get it.

01;25;40;06 - 01;25;42;07
JOSH
I like how Mary makes the subtext.

01;25;42;07 - 01;25;47;29
Speaker 2
The text that is that that is what John told me.

01;25;47;29 - 01;25;54;25
MURRAY
An example of that the other day, too. When I did that, when I just saw what I was trying to skirt around and I'll just.

01;25;54;25 - 01;25;57;03
Speaker 2
Spit it out. Yeah, yeah.

01;25;58;04 - 01;25;58;15
RUSS
I do.

01;25;58;15 - 01;26;00;19
MURRAY
That. That's why my claim to fame everybody.

01;26;01;00 - 01;26;03;11
JOSH
On that note, I think I think we.

01;26;03;12 - 01;26;03;21
Speaker 2
Really.

01;26;03;21 - 01;26;12;18
JOSH
Explored a lot of stuff here. I think this was a really good discussion of this episode. I'm really curious to see a minute till the end. I want to see where I want to see where all this is going.

01;26;12;18 - 01;26;15;27
JOSH
I want to see why we just had an episode of The Mandalorian in the middle of a show about both.

01;26;16;14 - 01;26;24;05
JON
Yeah, this this talk has made me think about things in a much different light, and it's almost like, Oh, well, maybe this was a really smart move. And and I'm more excited. Like after.

01;26;24;05 - 01;26;26;01
Speaker 2
This discussion, it's possible.

01;26;26;01 - 01;26;29;16
MURRAY
That they're just so much smarter than I am, and I'm just going to.

01;26;30;10 - 01;26;34;11
Speaker 2
Stay on target. Yeah, yeah. Stay on top of Canon Cannonier.

01;26;35;05 - 01;26;36;16
JOSH
You're too close. All right, guys.

01;26;36;24 - 01;26;38;13
Speaker 2
I will there.

01;26;38;19 - 01;26;42;17
JOSH
Next week for episode six or maybe episode 18 of The Mandalorian. I don't know what show we're in anymore. But on that note, thanks for joining us. I hope you enjoyed the discussion and we will be back next week. Have a good one.