Newbacca vs. The Mod Squad: BOOK OF BOBA FETT Episode 3

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JOSH
Joining me in the Trash Compactor today is Jon.

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[[MULTIPLE]]
Hello, Mickey. Hey. And Murray. Oh, hello.

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JOSH
And today we will be discussing episode three of the Book of Boba Fett, The Streets of Most Espa and let's start out with overall reactions. Jon, overall reactions to episode three.

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JON
I enjoyed it as I enjoy every episode of the show, but I will say that in this episode, I've noticed a couple of things I would criticize about maybe pacing or style choices. But that being said, it didn't deter me from the quality of the show.

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JON
I didn't think it took a big left field into crap territory. But there are a couple things about it that I can nipick about.

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JOSH
Mickey, your overall thoughts?

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MICKEY
Yeah, I mean, I'm basically I think I was going to say the same thing Jon was going to say. Maybe I'm a little bit more critical. I was a little bit more disappointed in it. Definitely like a rollercoaster in terms of like where I felt like the first went, where the second got much better and now the

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MICKEY
third, I'm kind of like back down on a little bit. I mean, it's not horrible, you know, or anything like that. But I definitely think there's there's definitely pacing things and stuff like that. And then overall, to me, like just the challenge of like what it could be that it's just not quite achieving.

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JOSH
Murray, overall thoughts.

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MURRAY
I'm in the same camp. I think I am more in Mickey's camp where there were multiple like that. I like the show and episode was cool and it's not like, I'm like down on the show. But there's definitely multiple times when I was watching this episode and something would happen like they would roll up on like

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MURRAY
British, like half droid, half human people. And I was just like, What the fuck am I watching right now?

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[[MULTIPLE]]
Like, what is this?

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MURRAY
And then I had a feeling based off of the first episode, and I told my wife I was like, I feel like this is directed by Robert Rodriguez because it just seemed like. I don't know, because I'm not going to say he's bad or he's but I just it just was like, this doesn't feel like the second

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MURRAY
episode, which I don't think he directed that one, right?

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JON
He didn't. Yeah, he did. Not just so much directed by him. I was like, Josh Murray's going to notice.

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MURRAY
Yeah, it's like it felt like cosplay, like it was just I was just like, What is going on here? But overall, I did like like it ish?

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JOSH
Yeah, yeah. You know, once again, I would say I'm in the same camp as all of you guys. I was kind of, you know, again, like, I enjoyed it and I enjoy the show overall. Not that I'm giving it a pass, but there's definitely Star Wars that I have problems with.

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JOSH
And I think Mickey or Murray, one of you, said it's just that it's not what it could be.

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JON
Mickey.

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MURRAY
Mickey.

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JOSH
Yeah. Which I think is probably true. But that said, like, I don't know. I just don't have it in me to really have the knives out for this show. But but yet there are some things. There are some things that I think in this episode in particular could have been done a little bit better.

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JOSH
And it is weird, right? Because Robert Rodriguez, I feel like the episodes he directs, I feel like the expectations for what they're going to be like are actually higher because he's known for directing action really well, but it seems like his episodes are kind of the ones that get kind of shit on the most.

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JOSH
Maybe it's the fact that he's used to directing features and used to going at his own pace like he takes his time. I know he has his own set up in Austin, and he kind of does his own thing.

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JOSH
And I think maybe the pace of directing TV series is maybe something he's not used to, so they're kind of moving faster and like rather than, you know, having a week to shoot a car chase, he has a day.

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JOSH
And maybe that comes through Murray, then Jon.

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MURRAY
So my thing with Robert Rodriguez, and it's funny because me and Jon were talking and conversing the other day. If Desperado still holds up and it is like to me, it's exactly the same, which probably means it doesn't hold up if it's the same now as it was like when it first came out.

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MURRAY
But Robert Rodriguez was always like, you could count on him for some really cool like shots. It almost seemed like that's all he cared about was like, What's cool? And I'm going to make it look awesome. But for his episodes, I feel like they're just kind of like flat and dull, and it's not getting any like even

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MURRAY
cool shots are cool moments, and I don't want to like, jump ahead too much. But if you watch Once Upon a Time in Mexico and then you watch this episode like, yes, this is 100% a guy that would rush to be like, We need Boba Fett riding around here.

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MURRAY
Oh my god, oh my god. Oh my God, we need it. And so, so when that when that conversation happened, I was like, Oh, this guy is getting so blinded by like, I think it was Josh. You put up that meme of the kids playing with action figures, and I was like, Yeah, that's exactly what's happening in

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MURRAY
this episode.

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JOSH
You know, it's funny because Sherri with Robert Rodriguez, you get, Oh my god, we have to see Boba Fett riding a ranker. But then you also get Danny Trejo as a rank or trainer, which I think is the fucking shit.

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[[MULTIPLE]]
Yeah, yeah. Yep.

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JON
I cheered when he showed up. I think.

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[[MULTIPLE]]
You know, and he was really good. Like he yeah, he he like you totally imagined.

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JOSH
Like he's totally a rank or trainer. Oh yeah. I mean, he's good Jon than Mickey.

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JON
There's something about Robert Rodriguez that I think is very old school with his action. And I feel like even when we're we're talking about Desperado, Murray, the movie, Desperado, El Mariachi, or whatever, I feel like they're cool because of the content that he is a mariachi with these guns, who's going against these drug cartels?

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JON
But the action itself is very kind of like cheesy and like, I don't want to say kind of like a matter of fact sort of thing, but it's just like, it's not like, Oh, look at the choreography of Desperado.

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MURRAY
It's a very long winded.

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JON
Yeah, yeah, it's just like, look at this dude who's wearing a cool outfit with a guitar, he's taking on these fucking goons. So I feel like when it comes to the action and both sides show he's like, Hey, check out this fuckin like biker mod squad who is chasing.

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[[MULTIPLE]]
The best dude? I see.

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JON
Yeah, the vest chase scene, which is another point I want to get into. But but it's just like, I don't think he's overly concerned about, like how cool the movements are as much as he's like, Look at this gang, follow this guy like it's the content.

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JON
And I think number like content over the choreographer.

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MURRAY
Yeah, but like in Desperado, like he have like cool shots, though, to just even like the mariachi, like on the bar with like the back lighting or the Buscemi. It just like looks cool where this just looks flat.

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MURRAY
So I don't know.

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JON
Well, well, maybe, maybe to Josh's point, maybe it's one of those constraints where it's like he had a he was doing a feature, you know, he had the true, yeah, Miramax behind his back and he had all the time.

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JON
I know he's like, famous for shooting things cheap and fast, but like with a TV show, it's like cheaper and faster.

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MURRAY
So maybe he but the the budget for this? TV show is probably going to be bigger than any budget he's ever had. So I wonder if he he needs the constraints to force like those cool shots and costumes and.

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JON
Maybe like the jaws thing. You know, the more things I guess do, the more creative you have to be. All right, Mickey, I feel like you're holding debt.

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[[MULTIPLE]]
No worries.

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MICKEY
first of all, I was going to ask him to say that. But like the first thing to do is since we said D'Andrea. Also, like I got more excited myself, received a route which was Yes.

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[[MULTIPLE]]
Yeah. Anyway, so yeah, so I like.

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MURRAY
Him. Yes, I was going to say like, I like him a lot, but it was the first thing because I'm just thinking of like that. I think Jon, like, categorize him as like, almost like a New Jersey or Seinfeld character in the first one that they like.

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MURRAY
And so when, like the first person you see is someone that you know, inside and out, so well, that was like one of my first triggers of being like, What am I watching? Is this like the first episode again?

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MURRAY
And then they meet like the Algarve now, like where the Vesper Gang and I was just like, What the fuck am I watching right now?

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[[MULTIPLE]]
Coming on for.

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MURRAY
The last episode.

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MICKEY
So I was just writing for Stephen Root to go like they got my water.

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[[MULTIPLE]]
Was my water, and then they got my water and they put him back in the rain.

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MICKEY
And I think, Yeah, it's true. I definitely think the biker gang was. Probably that is really the accents for me. That's my main complaint is like the thing that threw me the most and much more than even Stephen Root or anything was like those that kind of weird British accent.

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MICKEY
But I also one or two of the similar things like can maybe a little nod to like what am I think, favorite like Star Wars jokes from Newsradio? There was this great episode on Newsradio where they're like in the future, and they just have like that great Star Wars jokes about like the news anchors talking about, like

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MICKEY
the the terrorist rebels who killed all the innocent people on the Death Star.

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[[MULTIPLE]]
Either that or not, but I think to the.

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MICKEY
Point too, you're saying the flatness and everything I was thinking about this, I assume they're using the same system in Boba Fett as they use in in on The Mandalorian, whereas that kind of big screen wraparound screen thing where they feel amazing.

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MICKEY
And I.

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JON
Like that.

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JOSH
As a volume stage. Yeah.

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MICKEY
And I feel like that's got to really limit like, you're dying. It looks good, especially for this dead. Maybe that's why with things in the desert, I got too soon for that kind of like, you know, high contrast brightness.

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MICKEY
It looks good, but I can't imagine it's great for dynamics, for a shadows and things.

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JOSH
Like that you have to know. I think you have to know how to utilize it.

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MICKEY
Well, yeah. And I think having a guy from the nineties making things on a shoestring, using physical things like now you got him in front of this thing. Maybe that's kind of part of where this this issue, where it's like it's nothing looks bad, but again, there's there's like a dynamic to it that I think is possibly

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MICKEY
missing.

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JOSH
Yeah, I mean, he's used to shooting blue screen like he he did this city and the spy kids things. And like his own studio, like he's like really into that whole like virtual quote unquote way of filmmaking. Yeah, I just think there are.

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JOSH
And it is interesting, too, because I've seen a bunch of behind the scenes photos. They didn't use the volume as much as you'd think on the book of Boba Fett. They shot a lot of it outside with blue screen and physical sets.

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JOSH
For whatever reason, I'm not entirely sure why it probably has something to do with the straight set and the lighting. Maybe I'm not exactly sure. But Jon, I have a feeling we're about to get into the amazing technicolor West Side Story biker gang.

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JON
Yes, we are.

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[[MULTIPLE]]
Go ahead.

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JON
So to me, I feel like. one of the one of my critics I have with this episode is that they make these choices that I feel like if they just gave it another draft in the script or if they thought about it for longer, they might not have stuck with those choices.

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JON
And I think one of them was the West Side Story Mod. That's a biker gang. And the thing is like, that idea is actually really cool, but it doesn't fit with desert tattooing, Boba Fett like stuff like even steel.

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JON
He's like, There is these like modified teenagers that are like going around and stealing shit. And then when you meet them, they're like, Oh yeah, we don't have any work, so we have to like steal stuff. And it's like, right off the bat, I'm like, Well, how do you for your cybernetics?

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JON
Why are you all dressed like you're fucking? They all look like tents, like they're all models. Yeah, we all have these like super slick, sophisticated clothes and have these robotics which don't seem to do anything and they don't.

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MURRAY
Have to either. It looks like you just rubber cement it to his face.

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JON
Well, which might have some of its charm. And then the vest goes like each one's like, you get the red vest by the blue vest by the green vesper. And it's just like, I'm like, You know, I feel like this gang should be like, I can't bite.

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JON
But the casino people robbing them or like, I feel like they should be like on Coresight, which is very Blade Runner. City me on stuff like that. Like, like they're in like drive. And the movie is like Once Upon a Time in the West.

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JON
And so it's just like, I feel like the gang. If they just thought about it a little bit, if they just did a couple redress of their sketches, they should have been much more of like the vampire gang and near dark, really gritty, really visceral and like.

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JON
When you see them, you're like, Oh, fuck. Like, they're these guys don't fuck with them. Like, what if they all had like more of a Terminator esthetic like Mad Max than they do of the Mod Squad? And then like, I think I would have bought them as like a tough gang that can go up against like cartels

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JON
. So that's but that's like no fault of the actors, you know, or anything like that. It's just like, I just thought that was like a choice that was made in this sketch, part of the episode where they're drawing like art.

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JON
And I'm like, Why? Like, it stands out visually. Like, they stand out as unique, but it's like put in a weird in a way that stands out, like they don't fit in the show. If that makes any sense.

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JOSH
No, that makes sense. You know, it is interesting because it's definitely a choice.

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[[MULTIPLE]]
It's definitely it's it's.

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JOSH
It's definitely it's definitely a bold choice. And I don't think it was accidental again. I you like this is Robert Rodriguez. It's like one notch too far into spy kids. Kind of. Yeah, you know what I'm saying?

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MURRAY
Absolutely.

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JOSH
So, so I don't think it's a question of like if they just thought about it a little more. I think it's Robert Rodriguez was like, This is what I want. I think this would be cool. And while I agree with you that I don't know that it's necessarily what I say would have chosen.

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JOSH
It's a balancing act, right? Because I do like and do think that Star Wars is kind of elastic, right? Like it can handle a lot of different genres and visual styles as long as they're incorporated correctly. And I do appreciate the intention to try to do something maybe that you wouldn't necessarily expect to see in Star Wars

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JOSH
. But once again, like it's a balancing act, you have to be careful about how you go about it. I mean, yeah, like you were saying, like, there are just there are a lot of things about it that feel just a little bit off, like whether it's the accents, Mickey or the very vesper reminiscent design or also, you

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JOSH
know, Jon, when you were talking, I didn't even really think about it like that. But I mean, you're exactly right. Where did they get the money for all this stuff? Like, maybe like, I like it conceptually?

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JON
Me too. But in that world, it's weird. Well.

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MURRAY
Because like in the movie? Well, Jon brought up Blade Runner. But even in the movie Looper, like when they can't like all the cars, it's almost like they modded them themselves to run off of solar power. Like you see, almost like everything like duct taped to the cars and stuff like that.

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MURRAY
And. And that actually takes place in the future. But it feels like more real. Like if they had some sort of esthetic like that, you might be like, Well, no, they this is what they scavenge and sell and they like, make these mods like, I don't know, it just seems so like clear cut, almost like they were

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MURRAY
like rich kids, like in an eighties like skin.

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[[MULTIPLE]]
Yeah.

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MURRAY
And they were like the villains in and they had all their daddy's money.

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JON
Yeah.

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MURRAY
Rather than like scavengers that or like people that have the grift and come up with this money and or like maybe their their bikes aren't so. Crystal clean, and they're they're almost like made themselves. I don't know how to explain it, but like if.

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JON
They were really shoddy bikes, that would be really good.

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MURRAY
Yeah, like if it was like more more Luper and less like, I don't spy kids, I guess.

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[[MULTIPLE]]
Would be that.

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JOSH
Yeah, it's funny. It's like they do have a rich uncle and like they got like a Groupon for a whole set of like, just a speeder. Mickey, obviously.

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MICKEY
We're talking about they're referencing real world things, and I'm just wondering. I guess I don't know enough about the mod scene from like Sixties England to know the dynamics Sammy. But I wonder if that was like it was a bunch of unemployed kids in London, you know, listening to music and driving around and wearing fancy clothes and

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MICKEY
like. And they were unemployed and restless, but like, yeah, where do they get them? I mean, I guess if it if it was like that in the real world, like there is some real world answer to it. But again, I like the other.

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MICKEY
I just want to also point to it's like, you know, I think this was like a little Twitter thing for a day where a lot of people were kind of saying like, you know, like, it's dumb, but then people are pointing out like, Yeah, but look at look at episode one using like the fifties, esthetics and everything

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MICKEY
. And I'm like, But then I thought that was like, Yes, that's true. But also, yeah, everyone loves episode one and work.

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[[MULTIPLE]]
Yeah, well, right. Yeah. You know.

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JOSH
So it's funny you reference the prequels because like my what really reminded me of was the diner scene in episode two.

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MICKEY
Where I met. Yeah, yeah.

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JOSH
Yeah. Which I do have to say. I think this stands out to me less than that. I agree. Or actually.

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[[MULTIPLE]]
Maybe.

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JOSH
I mean, it depends because like everything surrounding the diner scene in episode two, kind of maybe it didn't really stick out that much because it's sort of the whole thing is just kind of esthetically strange. Whereas I feel like this show swings from yes to like, Hmm.

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MURRAY
Mm hmm. I did get the same feeling as that scene where you're just watching. Don't get me wrong, we're watching like a space western with like lasers and like laser swartzberg. Like you watched the Vesper scene or that diner scene and you're just like, This is just silly.

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MURRAY
This is just plain silly. Like it like kind of points out like, what am I watching? Like, what is this like you where you could get lost? And even like, I'm not going to bash on the prequels too, but you could get lost in the world created by the original trilogy or the sequels or Mandalorian.

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MURRAY
But then like this, it just seems like it like shows its hand too much and you could almost see the the man behind the curtain or the man behind the computer. And then when you bring in this esthetic, which I have no idea what the mod esthetic was like, Mickey was saying, like, I don't know if any

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MURRAY
of us do, but this looks like somebody was like, Oh, I totally know. And then they got it off of like Wikipedia and like, it's all just like stereotypical and like this. This is what it was like back then.

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MURRAY
So let's add that here. Like, I don't know.

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MICKEY
Mickey, I was going to say like the silliness to like. We're talking about that. I think that's maybe something Star Wars has to wrestle with or they're on this like edge, you know, like a big thing, too with toy, which people are saying like, oh, like, you know, we were like, Oh, this was a stupid little kids

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MICKEY
show. Like, Why do we feel like? And then before, like, Star Wars is a kids thing, and it's like.

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[[MULTIPLE]]
Oh, yeah, but I think Star Wars was kind of maybe it's an older.

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MICKEY
Kid thing or it's just on that, that razor's edge where I feel like and it made me think I was actually like, you know, like thinking of the other famous sci fi kids kids show. That's a kid's show is doctor who like Doctor Who is silly and it can be silly, and no one ever faults it for

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MICKEY
being silly, because that's that's what it is where Star Wars seems to have to wrestle. Has this like thing where, like the comics and some of the video games got dark, even though you know some of the influences early on was silly, you know, like, it's this kind of like dynamic.

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MICKEY
It's always got to like, play with and fall on one side, and it's something that's always have to wrestle with.

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JOSH
Yeah, I think Star Wars fans in particular get really worked up when there's anything in their Star Wars that could be read as silly because I think that they take it very seriously and they don't want to be.

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JOSH
I mean, I don't want to say self-conscious, but like they don't, they don't. They take it seriously and they want they want other people to take it seriously. So whenever they see something that could be read as like silly or like maybe something for kids, I think it's sort of it's sort of they get really worked up

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JOSH
about it. I say they as if I'm not a Star Wars fan, but I think we know what I'm talking about.

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[[MULTIPLE]]
It's like, it's like, you know.

00;20;30;19 - 00;20;30;28
JOSH
Jon.

00;20;31;25 - 00;20;46;28
JON
To your point, I think we were having a conversation last night. Josh and I were talking on the phone. And one thing that came up that I think would be another good feature podcast is the idea of what is Star Wars like, what what do we find Star Wars has and.

00;20;47;23 - 00;21;05;26
JON
And I think that kind of goes with what you were talking about with the balancing act like we were talking about, let's say, The Last Jedi. A lot of people were upset with Luke Skywalker, but we feel that it's within the wheelhouse of Luke to have some sort of tragedy as compared to like if you go to

00;21;05;26 - 00;21;10;26
JON
Luke Skywalker now and he's like, Oh, I'm a professional clown and a pedophile, you're like, That's not Luke.

00;21;10;26 - 00;21;13;03
[[MULTIPLE]]
Skywalker with a fucking, you know, like.

00;21;13;08 - 00;21;26;04
JON
So there is a there's a there's a balancing act, you know? Yeah. And then but on your point as to like people taking Star Wars seriously, I think this goes to another conversation we've had in the past which maybe we can get into with the Empire Strikes Back.

00;21;26;15 - 00;21;42;19
JON
But The Empire Strikes Back set the gold standard of Star Wars. And I think that one of the main reasons why was because it took itself seriously with some silliness and it, you know, but like because it took itself the most seriously and it was like the highest quality.

00;21;43;02 - 00;21;56;05
JON
I think subconsciously, people are reaching for that for every Star Wars, if they're fed now. So now they're like, Take yourself seriously. Maybe we can have another Empire Strikes Back quality thing. And so like, I think this is a subconscious thing.

00;21;56;05 - 00;22;02;23
JON
When they see something silly, they're like, Oh, they're not trying as hard, it's not going to be as good. And then they kind of internally freak out.

00;22;03;24 - 00;22;24;08
JOSH
No, for sure. We've talked about this a lot, but but I think and it's funny because there's a Star Wars account that I follow on Instagram, Star Wars 1980 and this person that they posted a screenshot of a comparison of the roster of bounty hunters from the Empire Strikes Back with IG 88 and Bossk and 4-LOM.

00;22;24;10 - 00;22;43;11
JOSH
And then on the bottom was the Vespa biker gang, and they were like, What We Wanted, What We Got. Right? And I was kind of like. Yeah, OK. Well, see, the thing is, you know, once again, and this is a topic for for a future podcast, I think I think comparing everything to the Empire Strikes

00;22;43;11 - 00;22;57;18
JOSH
Back is not is not great because for a lot of reasons, I think The Empire Strikes Back, while when all is said and done, is my favorite Star Wars film. But I do think it's an anomaly that created false expectations for what Star Wars is.

00;22;57;18 - 00;23;06;02
JOSH
It showed us what it could do. But as we've seen, that's not really what George Lucas had in mind in terms of the tone.

00;23;06;04 - 00;23;07;03
JON
Yeah, I agree.

00;23;07;17 - 00;23;18;23
MURRAY
So this is because me and Jon have talked about this before, and it's it's like kind of a hot take. And I'm not trying to like push any buttons, but like because I love Star Wars, a big Star Wars fan.

00;23;18;23 - 00;23;33;18
MURRAY
But like we tend to think of like, Oh, this is like, you know, like it's almost like the Beatles, right? Like, everything is just a great hit like every. But like, there's so many more movies and content that are not as good as the original.

00;23;33;18 - 00;23;48;07
MURRAY
So it's like, I don't know, it's like, maybe it's not as high. Like, you know, save for just the movies. It's like three out of three out of nine of them are like, really, really good. So it's still like the lower like minority of things.

00;23;48;07 - 00;23;52;29
MURRAY
That's good. So it's like less the Beatles are more like, you know, like Foo Fighters or something. No offense, the Foo Fighter.

00;23;53;05 - 00;23;53;17
[[MULTIPLE]]
But you don't.

00;23;53;23 - 00;24;08;11
MURRAY
Like where it's like, it's not like everything's pure gold and has always been gold. And now all of a sudden, this new stuff like I have the same thing with The Simpsons, you're like, it's Simpsons has been like, worse, like five times longer than it's been great.

00;24;08;11 - 00;24;19;16
MURRAY
So it's just like. But it has like this. Expectation that is where the best work that it did is kind of like what they're saying is like.

00;24;20;24 - 00;24;22;01
[[MULTIPLE]]
The point at all today.

00;24;22;10 - 00;24;36;09
JON
Yeah, it's like a legacy curse, you know, whether it's a legacy band or a legacy movie series, it's like you have a quality that you have. You're just shooting for every single time. And like, it's just, you know, statistics this map like you, you're not going to hit it every single time.

00;24;36;16 - 00;24;48;13
JON
But it doesn't necessarily mean that they shouldn't shoot for those things. Or, you know, it's like, Ah, it's all shit. Like, it's there is good quality stuff. Even then this episode, which I would like to get into you, but there's some there's some good moments in this episode.

00;24;48;15 - 00;24;48;23
JON
Mm hmm.

00;24;49;10 - 00;24;52;16
JOSH
Absolutely. I would like to get into that as well. Mickey, did you have something to say?

00;24;52;24 - 00;25;04;07
MICKEY
I guess I just wanted to point out like we were talking about, like how the silliness of it, the fact that it's like kind of the kids thing. And then I just kind of had to note that it is part of Disney Plus, and that seems to be where Disney Plus is, you know, kind of going to

00;25;04;08 - 00;25;15;20
MICKEY
content like when you go on that platform, you kind of get its and it's like, it's weird because it's not like it's not like Nick Kids is not like things for like three to five year olds, but I feel like it sounds when you like, scroll that platform, you're like, Oh, okay, this is for like, this is

00;25;15;20 - 00;25;20;23
MICKEY
for like eight to 15 year olds or something. And that's I feel like we're like, this could fit in.

00;25;21;19 - 00;25;22;03
[[MULTIPLE]]
Yeah.

00;25;22;08 - 00;25;42;27
JOSH
You know, I don't know how much that Disney branding is really affecting the content of the show. Like I really do think. Well, I know for a fact that Disney Plus is trying to broaden who their perceived audience is because like, they don't want to just be known as the stuff for for kids and family.

00;25;42;28 - 00;25;58;17
JOSH
But the Marvel shows, for example, like, I think, you know, Marvel is able to retain its own identity. And I think that with the purchase of Lucasfilm, I think that their intention was for Lucasfilm and its its properties like Star Wars to still retain their identity and be what they are.

00;25;58;18 - 00;26;14;03
JOSH
So, so I don't know that that is necessarily fitting it into something that that it wouldn't have already tried to be. I mean, just look at the pre Disney output, the cartoons like The Clone Wars and and stuff like that.

00;26;14;07 - 00;26;24;03
JOSH
Yeah. Which I'm not super familiar with. But you know what I have seen, like it does kind of run the gamut from super silly to very poignant and serious Murray.

00;26;24;08 - 00;26;40;13
MURRAY
So I think almost like maybe more subconsciously than people realize they they almost are expecting it to have like a like Harry Potter, like the book where like it was it aged up with the core audience, whereas Star Wars never like Star Wars?

00;26;40;13 - 00;26;47;04
MURRAY
Just like, no, this is our core audience. I don't care how old you're getting, like, this is our that first hit.

00;26;47;04 - 00;26;49;03
JOSH
That's a great point. That's a great point.

00;26;49;14 - 00;27;03;01
MURRAY
Because that first hit me when after The Last Jedi, which I I know my dislike of anything of it is solely because I'm a victim of horrible screening of it my first time seeing, and I can't separate it.

00;27;03;01 - 00;27;15;06
MURRAY
So I was saying like, how I didn't like it and my friend Bill was like, Oh, I thought it was. It was amazing. And I was like, Oh, really? What about this, this and this? And then he he was he wasn't mad, but he finally said, like, out of everyone here talking about it, I'm the I went

00;27;15;06 - 00;27;25;01
MURRAY
with my son, so I'm the only one that saw it with a nine year old. And trust me, it's awesome. Like, and you're just like, That's very OK. Yeah, you. That's interesting. All the points in the world right there.

00;27;25;20 - 00;27;42;22
JON
Yeah. But to your point, the second time I think I saw the movie there is like a six or seven year old girl immediately to my right and the scene in The Last Jedi, when they they killed Snoke and they Rey and Ren look at each other and they go back to back and it goes in a

00;27;42;22 - 00;27;50;07
JON
slow motion as the bad guys are coming in on the right before they fight the little girl literally like left out of her seat. Grab the railing in front of everyone.

00;27;50;07 - 00;27;53;07
[[MULTIPLE]]
Who that.

00;27;53;09 - 00;27;55;01
JON
Made the movie five stars better.

00;27;55;14 - 00;27;56;09
[[MULTIPLE]]
And I just.

00;27;56;09 - 00;28;00;04
JON
Heard and I was like, and I was like, Yeah, this moment fucking rock.

00;28;00;28 - 00;28;01;04
[[MULTIPLE]]
Yeah.

00;28;02;02 - 00;28;04;08
MURRAY
I mean, I was like that too. As you know.

00;28;04;23 - 00;28;07;22
[[MULTIPLE]]
As an adult, I thought when I was like 30, obviously. Obviously.

00;28;08;14 - 00;28;09;24
JON
The little kid made it just.

00;28;10;04 - 00;28;14;17
MURRAY
Yeah, 100%. And then it like, it's eye opening, like, Oh, OK, no, this it's.

00;28;14;17 - 00;28;15;00
JON
It's they're almost.

00;28;15;02 - 00;28;32;12
MURRAY
Nailing it for the audience. And for me, if I'm if I meet someone that like loves the prequels and I'm like, Oh, and they might like the original, but they love the prequels enough. In the conversation, you find out like there were like ten years old when or like or like seven years old when episode one came

00;28;32;12 - 00;28;38;22
MURRAY
out. Whereas we were like, what? Seniors in high school or something like that? They're like, OK, yeah, no, it's going to hit a different high school.

00;28;39;01 - 00;28;39;12
[[MULTIPLE]]
Yes.

00;28;41;27 - 00;28;56;02
JON
I remember. I think possibly the first time I ever watched Star Wars was I was maybe like I. Most four years old and my dad hooked up the speakers to our TV and he put it the jet. Yeah, yeah.

00;28;56;10 - 00;29;11;26
JON
And I remember like as soon as I started with the galaxy far, far away, I can't read, but I could tell what's going on. And then when is this just like Star Wars bad but alive? My jaw opened up and the rest of the movie I was just staring slack jawed at the TV completely in the zone

00;29;11;27 - 00;29;17;12
JON
. Like, What the fuck is this? It blew me off the map, you know?

00;29;17;12 - 00;29;18;09
JOSH
And that's awesome.

00;29;19;09 - 00;29;34;02
JON
And like, like as a little kid like it, just it hit all the buttons. And I feel like even with the ones that were like Attack of the Clones isn't really that great. But for some five year old out there, the saw attack of the Clones, I could be the first Star Wars movie man.

00;29;34;12 - 00;29;36;05
JON
That's probably his favorite movie of all time.

00;29;36;23 - 00;29;37;07
[[MULTIPLE]]
Because all.

00;29;37;07 - 00;29;37;19
JON
The time.

00;29;37;28 - 00;29;47;03
MURRAY
I was, I was young enough that I thought that 20th Century Fox with the spotlights and the light that every movie that started like that was Star Wars was.

00;29;47;03 - 00;29;47;20
[[MULTIPLE]]
Star Wars.

00;29;47;21 - 00;29;59;05
MURRAY
Yeah, and stuff like that, too. Like I couldn't associate. So like, yeah, we all watched it when we were super young, and that's why we we love it so much. But I think I'm not patting ourselves on the back at all.

00;29;59;05 - 00;30;11;01
MURRAY
But I think once you realize that it doesn't age up with its original audience and that it just stays the same, then it's like almost like frees. You like disconnection from the matrix and you're just like, Oh no, this is awesome for I.

00;30;11;01 - 00;30;11;29
JON
Think you're right about that.

00;30;12;11 - 00;30;25;09
JOSH
You know, I think that's a really great point that that that hadn't occurred to me. But like I said, Harry Potter that that age up with its audience and Star Wars stays for twelve year olds or nine year olds, or whatever it is.

00;30;25;16 - 00;30;44;29
JOSH
I want to pivot to some of the stuff that I thought really was great in this episode. Yeah, I don't know how you guys feel about it, but the one in the flashback when he discovers that the I guess the biker gang massacred the the Tusken tribe that he was a part of like that really hit me

00;30;44;29 - 00;30;54;16
JOSH
between the eyes. Like, Yeah. Like, especially especially coming off of how much, you know, we kind of celebrated them last week that really hit like that really landed with me. Yeah.

00;30;55;19 - 00;31;12;19
JON
I thought that was the best part of the episode for a couple of reasons. one, the reveal of it, I thought, was perfect because because Boba Fett is talking to the leader of the Pyke Syndicate or whatever they're called, and he's like, Well, we already have a deal with the bikers and then Boba Fett's like, All right

00;31;12;29 - 00;31;26;02
JON
, you're never going to hear from them ever again. I'm going to handle it right now. And kind of like in The Mandalorian, where it's almost like an RPG, where it's like, just go and fetch it sort of quests where it's like, I'll do this for you, but you got to do this quest for me.

00;31;26;08 - 00;31;38;14
JON
So I was like, OK, like what was going to go to the biker gang and like, mess him up again? But then it's like a bait and switch where it's like, Nope. This is more of a reveal that Huskins were taken out and that hit really hard.

00;31;38;14 - 00;31;54;15
JON
And I think the hardest moment is when he's burning the bodies and he takes out the little stick and you like, Oh God, the kid's body must be in there. He's dead. That's so fucking terrible. But on the flip side, they they purposefully never show the woman warrior's body.

00;31;54;24 - 00;32;00;27
JON
You see the chief and you see the stick for the kid, but you never see that badass warrior lying dead, either.

00;32;01;14 - 00;32;02;12
JOSH
Oh, that's interesting.

00;32;02;15 - 00;32;10;26
JON
And I think she's going to pop up in this later on and become part of his gang or whatever and like, just have real retribution against the biker syndicate.

00;32;11;07 - 00;32;13;24
JOSH
That's interesting. I didn't notice that, but that's a good point.

00;32;14;07 - 00;32;17;03
MURRAY
If that's true, I just got so excited that.

00;32;17;03 - 00;32;17;27
[[MULTIPLE]]
The two might be.

00;32;17;27 - 00;32;18;16
MURRAY
Back. Yeah, like.

00;32;18;17 - 00;32;21;04
[[MULTIPLE]]
I say, yeah, yeah.

00;32;21;14 - 00;32;41;24
MURRAY
I I was like, so bummed out. And then like, I, of course, like, you can't help but make ties to, you know, A New Hope and the reveal there with the same thing. But the what kind of well, like I was glad like after how like attached you get in the second episode that like you only see

00;32;41;24 - 00;32;55;22
MURRAY
the aftermath. I know it's Disney, so it's not like they're going to show it like. But if we had to watch like an Episode three esque thing of this like war or people getting like killed, I would be like very, very bummed out.

00;32;55;22 - 00;33;16;24
MURRAY
And it's all just like I was a little like relieved in that sense. But also it makes sense because like we were talking last week, like something has to push Boba Fett to be kind of what we saw him to be when he popped up in Mandalorian, which was like the like, just like more of that anger

00;33;16;24 - 00;33;32;08
MURRAY
and like, you're like, Oh, this is a guy that would disintegrate everybody like. And so if you have that re-ignite his rage or whatever he was like kind of quelled by being friends with them and like learning from them and them saving him like you could see like, OK, they like, broke this man.

00;33;32;08 - 00;33;34;19
MURRAY
And now they're in a lot of trouble.

00;33;35;05 - 00;33;36;05
[[MULTIPLE]]
You know? Totally.

00;33;36;11 - 00;33;45;16
MICKEY
I definitely I noticed like the woman's warrior wasn't there, so I was like, and I didn't put two together with the sticks, I was like, Oh, hopefully she's got the younglings and the dogs because I was also really sad.

00;33;45;16 - 00;33;54;10
MICKEY
Like, I'm assuming all those dog things are that too, which button that. So what I was like thinking like, oh, maybe her and the kids in the dog, things are like hiding in a cave somewhere or something.

00;33;54;19 - 00;33;57;19
JON
Fingers crossed with a nice white picket fence.

00;33;58;06 - 00;33;59;12
[[MULTIPLE]]
Yeah, yeah.

00;33;59;13 - 00;34;07;06
JOSH
The other thing that I really dug was the stuff with the badass Wookiee, whose name I can't pronounce, but.

00;34;07;09 - 00;34;09;26
JON
Black crane stain or something.

00;34;09;26 - 00;34;27;26
JOSH
Like. Yeah, yeah, there's a way to pronounce it. I don't know. But Keiron Gillon, who wrote who created the character who wrote the Darth Vader comics and the the Dr. Afra stuff, I think he popped up on Twitter when he showed up at live action and he was like my temporary name for the character.

00;34;27;26 - 00;34;31;08
JOSH
When I was writing, it was Newbacca.

00;34;32;12 - 00;34;32;22
[[MULTIPLE]]
So.

00;34;33;07 - 00;34;45;07
JOSH
So I think I'm going to refer to him as as new Newbacca until I hear someone actually pronounce it properly. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that jump scare where he wakes up in the back to attack and he, like he rips him out of the back to tank.

00;34;45;08 - 00;34;49;18
JOSH
I think maybe comes right on the heels of that flashback we were just talking about. Yeah, I.

00;34;49;21 - 00;34;51;04
JON
Think it does. I think it's yeah.

00;34;51;08 - 00;34;53;01
MURRAY
It was like very jarring and awesome.

00;34;53;01 - 00;34;53;22
[[MULTIPLE]]
Yeah, yeah.

00;34;53;22 - 00;35;04;09
JOSH
Yeah, no, exactly like that. That whole jump scare. And like seeing that Wookiee fuckin grab him when he's so vulnerable. Like, literally, he has no clothes on. It was like.

00;35;04;09 - 00;35;05;01
MURRAY
Psycho, right?

00;35;05;20 - 00;35;08;08
JOSH
Yeah, it's kind of like that. Eastern promises fight. I mean, not.

00;35;09;28 - 00;35;12;14
[[MULTIPLE]]
I mean, not as good, obviously, but it's sort of, yeah.

00;35;12;15 - 00;35;13;12
JOSH
But it's sort of like.

00;35;14;23 - 00;35;16;27
[[MULTIPLE]]
You might like this. Yeah.

00;35;18;12 - 00;35;30;09
JON
Yeah. I thought that scene was was awesome because that Wookie character, I think, is the scariest fucking thing ever. And I was like when he showed up and he's so violently throws him out of the tank and you get into the fight.

00;35;30;09 - 00;35;37;29
JON
I was like, Yeah, and Boba Fett, like, he doesn't have his armor. He's just one speedos. You know, he's covered in like petroleum jelly, and he's kind.

00;35;38;11 - 00;35;38;26
[[MULTIPLE]]
Of this guy.

00;35;39;19 - 00;35;55;03
JON
But my my only critique of that fight is the moves and the choreography that the biting and everything was so visceral and it's getting punched the shit by this ten foot Wookiee. And it's not even like a bruise or a trickle of blood from his nose or a bite mark.

00;35;55;03 - 00;36;15;11
JON
And I was like, and I wonder if that's struggling with the dynamic of like, this is a kid's show, so we can't show too much blood. But that's a minor point. I actually thought the scene itself was cool, and I thought that the Wookiee taking on the entire gang by himself and almost winning was a really cool

00;36;15;17 - 00;36;25;23
JON
show of force to be like, you know, these guys might be badass bounty hunters and stuff like that, but they still have their work cut out for them. And I just thought that was awesome and kind of terrifying at the same time.

00;36;26;00 - 00;36;26;10
[[MULTIPLE]]
Yeah.

00;36;26;28 - 00;36;27;08
JOSH
Mickey.

00;36;28;06 - 00;36;39;17
MICKEY
Yeah, I I just like I kind of like you said the whole thing that these are promising, but not as good. And that's where I was. Like, It was awesome. It was great. I was thinking I was thinking to promise I was thinking the bathroom fight and that Mission Impossible movie.

00;36;40;14 - 00;36;40;23
[[MULTIPLE]]
Oh yeah.

00;36;41;09 - 00;36;51;02
MICKEY
You know that one where it's like the physicality, because this is like, yeah, I'd just like to do to be just like, like, you look at them, you're like, This is going to be bad. Like, there's a lot of, you know, like power can happen.

00;36;51;02 - 00;37;05;17
MICKEY
And like, if it just was like almost there. But I think it's like all the rooms seem pretty open, like they were almost like all wrestling rings, naked wrestling where I almost like, wish there was more like objects they could get smashed through or something that was like the one thing where it's like almost Mission Impossible.

00;37;06;05 - 00;37;06;27
[[MULTIPLE]]
For example.

00;37;06;28 - 00;37;17;02
MICKEY
That's exactly what I was like kind of thinking where I mean, and I'm blanking on the actors name now, the Witcher guy, where he's just like that part where he does Henry Cavill. Yeah, when he does like his like arm, like getting ready.

00;37;17;03 - 00;37;19;18
[[MULTIPLE]]
Somebody, it was like, Oh no, oh no, yeah.

00;37;19;29 - 00;37;22;23
MICKEY
I was waiting for that moment, and I felt like it never quite hit.

00;37;24;13 - 00;37;34;16
JOSH
Hmm. Yeah, I mean, the one thing that I will say about. The openness of the room like it really lets you see very clearly how far he can throw Boba Fett.

00;37;36;00 - 00;37;51;04
MURRAY
But this is like a minor thing. It's not even a critique, but it is something that kind of made me laugh because like for what we know of Boba Fett before he has the training from the raiders, and then we have that on top of, you know, what kind of adversary he's going to be.

00;37;51;05 - 00;38;05;18
MURRAY
And then you have this big new back, a guy that's like it, just terrifying. And he's got the upper hand. And then like the like little like biker kids are like, Oh, I'll save you like and it's just like reminded me of in was the end game.

00;38;05;18 - 00;38;14;12
MURRAY
When you see Captain Marvel, just like single handedly destroy like a ship and then everybody's like, Oh, we'll get her back because she needs our help. It's like, clearly she doesn't like she could like.

00;38;15;06 - 00;38;15;13
[[MULTIPLE]]
So.

00;38;15;18 - 00;38;28;00
MURRAY
And so I just like, I understand. Of course, your mob boss is under attack, so you're going to like, help him out. But it's just like they were so not set up to be any sort of that, I thought, but like, Oh, they're going to come save him.

00;38;28;00 - 00;38;35;29
MURRAY
I almost thought it was kind of like silly because like, what are they going to do? What are they just going to sit like and drink tea and listen to like the awesome power soundtrack?

00;38;36;02 - 00;38;37;17
[[MULTIPLE]]
What are they going to do this fight?

00;38;40;13 - 00;38;59;16
JON
two thoughts about that one. I thought that scene better illustrated the function of their cybernetics than the chasing dead. So I thought that like, you see them, like with their electric chains and stuff like that, I was like, Oh, that's kind of cool, but to when you really think about Boba Fett in the original trilogy?

00;39;00;19 - 00;39;14;05
JON
It wasn't much of a fighter. He was he would outwit you like he would set up traps for you. Why he didn't catch Han Solo because he beat him up. He caught Han Solo because he told he. He just tracked him to Aspen.

00;39;14;06 - 00;39;21;10
JON
That's where they knew where he was. And likewise, in return, the Jedi, when he famously goes out like a chump, like a chump.

00;39;21;17 - 00;39;22;06
[[MULTIPLE]]
You know, like.

00;39;22;25 - 00;39;42;24
JON
Like he, he tries to tie up Luke with rope. And Luke cuts his gun in half and he his jetpack accidentally goes like, it's not like he's like Bruce Lee. So I think it kind of fits with like, he's he's a better fighter in the show now than he ever was, in my opinion, just given like what

00;39;42;24 - 00;39;49;10
JON
we've seen from the films. I mean, I don't know about the cartoons and stuff, but still, I thought it worked before.

00;39;49;10 - 00;39;58;28
JOSH
I got a chance to see the episode I had designs on. I was going to stay up because, you know, here on the West Coast, the episodes drop at midnight instead of 3:00 a.m. So it's like a very doable thing.

00;39;58;28 - 00;40;06;19
JOSH
But I have a one year old, so, so so I was like, So I was like, No man, I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it, I'm going to stay up. And then it's like, you know, nine, 55.

00;40;06;19 - 00;40;25;24
JOSH
And I'm like, I'm not doing this. So. So I watched it the following day, and I try to avoid spoilers. I even try to avoid, like, not like full on spoilers, but just like the reaction because I know that it will color my expectations for when I sit down to watch it.

00;40;25;28 - 00;40;32;02
JOSH
And a friend of mine who didn't realize that I hadn't seen it yet, he texted me, Robert Rodriguez should fire himself. And I.

00;40;32;24 - 00;40;33;27
[[MULTIPLE]]
Thought, Jesus.

00;40;34;00 - 00;40;39;09
JOSH
And I was like. And I was like, Oh, OK, I guess people didn't like this one.

00;40;41;26 - 00;40;42;11
[[MULTIPLE]]
I mean, that's.

00;40;42;14 - 00;40;43;06
JON
That's a bit harsh.

00;40;43;12 - 00;41;00;03
MURRAY
Yeah, it's tricky because it's it's not bad. I just like, there's something that with Robert Rodriguez like, I don't want it to seem like, Oh, he's a hack, but there's just something in him that change from. And like we're saying like this, Brando's not like a great movie, but there was a change from the person who made

00;41;00;03 - 00;41;07;14
MURRAY
that to the person that made like, like spy kids. I'm not talking about in terms of a kid's movie. It's just like it was there.

00;41;07;17 - 00;41;08;08
JOSH
Style in a.

00;41;08;08 - 00;41;23;09
MURRAY
Profile. Yeah. And so and then to the extent that I think that he needs some sort of constraint because when he's thrown into the flashback, the flashback seems like it's directed by somebody else because it doesn't seem as like hokey and flat.

00;41;23;10 - 00;41;41;10
MURRAY
I keep saying that I don't know how else to describe it, but like it seems like it has. It's just like better, like better quality all throughout that. It's like that. I feel like when he's involved with like the city life and all these other characters, he kind of I don't want to say, like fumbles it because

00;41;41;10 - 00;41;52;14
MURRAY
he's a far better director than I ever could be. So I can't like say anything bad about him. But there is just something where I was like, Oh, this just seems like hokey to the extent that the flashbacks seemed like it was done by someone else.

00;41;52;14 - 00;41;58;02
MURRAY
Like, maybe that did episode two, you know of the show, not the movie?

00;41;58;12 - 00;41;58;21
[[MULTIPLE]]
Yeah.

00;41;59;06 - 00;42;12;12
JON
Yeah, I think that goes back to what we were saying before, or at least what I think I brought up before, which is I think there's a hokey ness to Robert Rodriguez. I think everything like, you know, Shark Boy and Lava Girl, like, that's not OK.

00;42;13;08 - 00;42;29;21
JON
And like, but that's that's what he likes, and it's just like. And there's a charm to that, like, like like I feel like. A lot of different directors come in and they fit with the Star Wars esthetic, and they do different things like this one is going to be live in more samurai oriented.

00;42;29;21 - 00;42;43;09
JON
This one is going to be little bit more Flash Gordon. And I feel like he's of the dude of those action movies where, like Arnold, will just go into a field with a fucking end 60 and blow away people without taking any cover at all with infinity.

00;42;43;09 - 00;43;02;11
JON
Yeah, yeah. And I feel like that's Robert Rodriguez. Like, he's just like, I'm like, he's like a that vein. So when things come off is sort of like. I don't know that, I guess, or like our flat or whatever, I'm like, I think that's kind of harking back to that old like the late eighties, sort of like

00;43;02;16 - 00;43;11;13
JON
just people shooting from the hip and like even the original Star Wars is kind of like that. Like Luke is like out in the open blown away stormtroopers. It's like, Oh.

00;43;11;13 - 00;43;14;24
[[MULTIPLE]]
Fuck, we can't hit them, you know? Exactly. Yeah.

00;43;14;29 - 00;43;17;27
JON
And so it's like kind of like inherent to the source a little bit, you know?

00;43;19;11 - 00;43;21;21
MICKEY
I want to see Shane Black in the Star Wars TV show.

00;43;21;24 - 00;43;25;21
JOSH
Oh yeah, dude. Yeah, I just love it.

00;43;25;22 - 00;43;26;11
[[MULTIPLE]]
Oh fucking I.

00;43;26;29 - 00;43;30;14
JOSH
He should do. He should do a movie. They should. They should bring him in to do a movie.

00;43;30;14 - 00;43;42;08
MURRAY
I think people would hate it. I would. It would. It's like, like I say, Iron Man three is my favorite. Like, like one of my favorite Marvel movies. It's like up there. Everyone thinks I'm like, completely out of my mind.

00;43;42;08 - 00;43;53;20
MURRAY
I'm like, it's an Iron Man movie in which, like, he doesn't have the suit, which everyone's complaining about. Like, No, what we always see him in the suit and what he could do. This is like, totally, you know, I'll go on about Shane Black.

00;43;53;20 - 00;43;55;02
MURRAY
Slow, quick, quick move on.

00;43;55;02 - 00;43;56;07
[[MULTIPLE]]
Otherwise. Yeah. Well.

00;43;57;15 - 00;44;14;16
JON
I was going to say, you're talking about writing a good movie writer, you know, kiss, kiss, bang bang and all that stuff. Hmm. And Lethal Weapon. And I was thinking about the writing of this because I was thinking about how they set up in a last episode of like, Hey, check out these two new heights in this

00;44;14;16 - 00;44;19;20
JON
Wookiee like, these are going to be like your adversary for the season and the next episode. It's like.

00;44;19;20 - 00;44;23;24
[[MULTIPLE]]
Goodbye. Yeah, it's like we're leaving it real quick.

00;44;24;02 - 00;44;26;26
JON
Like, I thought, like they were going to be around for a couple episodes.

00;44;27;04 - 00;44;28;29
[[MULTIPLE]]
Well, so and so about that.

00;44;28;29 - 00;44;37;23
JOSH
So. So I think this is a good segue way to talk about what we think at this point in the season where we think it might be going. I have to think that that's kind of a ruse that the huts are going to.

00;44;38;06 - 00;44;49;17
JOSH
I come back like they're I mean, they're lulling him into a false sense of security and being like, Nope, like, we're done. We're out here. I still. So we have four episodes left. I still don't really know, and I don't mean this in a bad way.

00;44;49;20 - 00;45;08;12
JOSH
I don't really know where this is going. I'm still intrigued and I think something that I think people online, especially fandom, has a hard time with. I feel like people lose sight of the fact that this is one chapter of a seven part story.

00;45;08;13 - 00;45;27;20
JOSH
And so when they they say that episode sucked, this whole show sucks. It's like you don't. You don't know how it fits into the larger hole yet. Right? So especially with the hot take Twitter culture that we live in, it's like everyone feels compelled to have like a really strong opinion.

00;45;28;14 - 00;45;36;25
JOSH
And when there's anything that can be sort of read in a negative way, there's like a lack of nuance. It's like, Oh, I can jump all over that.

00;45;36;26 - 00;45;42;20
JON
That reminds me of our first episode where you're like, where someone wrote the book of Boba Fett verse and polio, and it's like, Come.

00;45;42;20 - 00;45;43;29
[[MULTIPLE]]
On, right? You know?

00;45;44;27 - 00;45;59;00
JON
But that being said, though, I think we live in a pop culture setting now where a lot of the things that we are being shown are things that we have to figure out, and part of the joy is figuring it out.

00;45;59;10 - 00;46;11;20
JON
And, you know, maybe it all started with lost, you know, or Twin Peaks, you know, even going further back. But it's just like, you know, we live in a culture where it's like, you're trying to figure out the season and you're trying to guess where it's going to go.

00;46;11;21 - 00;46;20;07
JON
I think Tyrion Lannister is going to do this in Game of Thrones, and I think this is going to happen. What's going to, who's going to, who's going to rule the throne or who's going to who killed Laura Palmer?

00;46;20;15 - 00;46;42;24
JON
And then on Nick, what's his true detective, Nic Pizzolatto or something like that? Yeah, I think he said something like. We were all kind of fed like a steady diet of like bad writing for TV. So when True Detective came out and everyone was like figuring out like what was going to happen, how is this going to

00;46;42;24 - 00;46;56;08
JON
go? Like, is it some crazy conspiracy or whatever? And the first episode, Woody Harrelson, this character says something along the lines to Matthew McConaughey, the other detective he's like. You ever believe in the theory that the answer is like the most obvious one, the one.

00;46;56;08 - 00;47;13;18
JON
It's like right under your nose. And the writer of the show was kind of trying to tell the audience like, Stop it, stop, stop trying to like, like, just enjoy the ride. Maybe I'm projecting onto him a little bit, but I feel like that is where some of these people are coming from when they watch these episodes

00;47;13;18 - 00;47;23;28
JON
and like, this episode sucks. So therefore the whole show sucks and like, and I don't know where it's going to go. And like you said, Josh, like not knowing where it's going to go is not a bad thing.

00;47;23;28 - 00;47;30;10
JON
I think not knowing where it's going to go is a good thing in many different ways because you're always going to be surprised, you know? So.

00;47;30;17 - 00;47;30;28
[[MULTIPLE]]
Totally.

00;47;31;04 - 00;47;34;02
JON
Yeah, I just think it's part of a culture clash is what it is.

00;47;34;15 - 00;47;47;02
MURRAY
Star Wars, I think, kind of like flip flops on this itself. I don't know what the reviews were for Empire Strikes Back, but like that ended with like zero resolution. Write it just like kind of sets you up like.

00;47;49;05 - 00;48;03;15
MURRAY
With my they they basically lost and they're needing to kind of regroup and figure it out. And I wonder if that came out today. There there's no ending to it, like what it felt like when we watched Lord the Rings, Jon, in theaters and Premiere.

00;48;03;25 - 00;48;05;11
MURRAY
Well, that's it. Like this.

00;48;05;22 - 00;48;07;17
JON
Then they said, What about the ring?

00;48;07;25 - 00;48;08;02
[[MULTIPLE]]
Yeah.

00;48;09;01 - 00;48;20;21
MURRAY
And so it just and I mean, I I get that with like, say, like no country for old men. Like, if something's not concluded, like wrapped up and presented to somebody, then they're like, I don't know, it sucked.

00;48;20;21 - 00;48;38;00
MURRAY
But then if it is presented to the movie goes, it was too easy. And I think, you know, like so episode one of the prequels and like clean cut and I feel like they all end clean cut. And so now, even when it goes to TV shows that the TV episode is not wrapped up almost like a

00;48;38;00 - 00;48;53;06
MURRAY
standalone episode, people are like, that fucking sucked. Like, that's the dumbest thing. It's like, Well, it's part of a yeah, like a series like give it a chance. Like, Yeah, I don't know, it's just there. They're expecting it to be all cleaned and wrapped up in standalone episodes almost like a cartoon would be.

00;48;53;11 - 00;49;05;24
JOSH
Yeah, I mean, I actually think I'm going to take it one further. I think they're expecting like a cliffhanger that lets them know exactly what's going to happen in the next episode. Like they want to know where this is going.

00;49;05;25 - 00;49;19;27
JOSH
I think that they want every episode to be like a huge event and end on like a crazy, crazy cliffhanger, so they know exactly what to expect next week. And it's weird because again, like like, I don't think fans know exactly what they want, they know what they do not want.

00;49;20;03 - 00;49;22;02
JOSH
But but I don't think they know what they want.

00;49;24;05 - 00;49;45;08
JON
There is always that old adage that audiences are smarter than studios think they are, which is true. But I think ironically, since audiences are smarter and they're trying to figure out the mysteries like I was saying before, they also need to be led by the hand to show them where the trail is so like.

00;49;45;12 - 00;50;00;24
JON
So without a cliffhanger being like, this is going to be the next thing, what's going to happen? People can, like, concentrate on that target and be like and try to figure out that mystery. But if they're not given that cliffhanger or if the not given that resolution, it's completely open-ended.

00;50;01;04 - 00;50;09;24
JON
And so when they have all the options of what's possible, I feel like they get paralysis and then they're like, Well, what's going to happen? And they take that as almost like a.

00;50;10;26 - 00;50;14;05
JOSH
I don't know. I was like a failure, like a fan and the yeah.

00;50;14;05 - 00;50;18;26
JON
Yeah, as a feeling in the show as compared to just being like, Well, I mean, you'll just wait and see.

00;50;19;15 - 00;50;19;24
[[MULTIPLE]]
Right?

00;50;19;24 - 00;50;36;16
MURRAY
When you're saying how there's like it's so open ended or are too many possible options that it's like debilitating. That's so true because on a non Star Wars related thing, like if I'm playing a video game like Metroid Vanilla or something like that and I'm playing Symphony of the Night and I go into a place and I

00;50;36;16 - 00;50;52;12
MURRAY
can't progress any further, I'm like relieved. I'm like, OK, like I know out of all these like passageways, like, it's like focusing me to where I have to go because it's like my favorite thing in a video game is a locked door because I'm like, OK, that's I have to figure out how to unlock that.

00;50;52;12 - 00;51;12;14
MURRAY
But I also like it takes away one of the many options of directions I could go. So like, I feel that when you said that was like, Oh, that's totally that makes a 100% sense with it, with TV shows and even multiple part movies where it's if it's too open ended, it almost gets like overwhelming where you

00;51;12;14 - 00;51;22;07
MURRAY
would think it would be the other way around, like if your hand is held too much like, oh, that's like boring. And still, I know where it's going to go, but there's like maybe a comfort in that.

00;51;22;23 - 00;51;23;23
[[MULTIPLE]]
Yeah, yeah.

00;51;24;04 - 00;51;44;27
JOSH
I think it's a taste thing. I think it's a Mickey. You were talking a lot about this whole notion of peak TV that that we're in and like how we're trained to watch TV now and. Mm hmm. And I do think that's kind of inseparable from the immediate hot take social media culture.

00;51;44;28 - 00;52;01;17
JOSH
I think they kind of feed each other, right? Yeah. People need something to talk about. They want something to talk about and the way a lot of serialized. I mean, most shows in in quote unquote peak TV genre, if you want to call it that, because I do think it's like a genre now.

00;52;01;18 - 00;52;05;15
JOSH
Like, there are shows that are trying specifically to be peak TV.

00;52;05;21 - 00;52;06;12
MICKEY
Yeah, exactly.

00;52;06;12 - 00;52;25;11
JOSH
You know, they play into that. Like, it's almost like they're written for what we once upon a time would have called, like the water cooler discussion. But now it's like the whole point. I mean, we're writing this for the audience to be talking about it on Twitter and to be finding it to be, you know, kind of

00;52;25;26 - 00;52;27;00
JOSH
, yeah, saying and stuff like that.

00;52;27;05 - 00;52;28;20
MURRAY
We give them something to talk.

00;52;28;20 - 00;52;30;01
[[MULTIPLE]]
About, you know, like they're like.

00;52;30;02 - 00;52;33;17
MICKEY
They're expecting that. Yeah, OK, when this comes, I'm going to be on there. And yeah.

00;52;33;21 - 00;52;47;26
JOSH
I feel like Jon Favreau and and the book of Boba Fett is like this. Like, I think he's he's doing his own thing and he's he's kind of like, you know, very smartly, especially with something like Star Wars and like the character of Boba Fett in particular when there were.

00;52;47;28 - 00;53;01;05
JOSH
So many strong feelings and so many high expectations, that's the only way to like, do a story with any integrity is to just kind of as much as possible, set all that aside and tune it out and decide for yourself what it's going to be.

00;53;01;11 - 00;53;21;24
JOSH
And just kind of, you know, kind of kind of keep your head down and just plow through and do it and a very much getting that sense. This show is is working on its own wavelength, and some fans are either they're tuning into it or they're they're just like, No, this is not what I thought or when

00;53;21;24 - 00;53;22;26
JOSH
I wanted, right?

00;53;22;26 - 00;53;42;21
JON
It's funny because when we when we think about the beginning of peak TV, most people will say, like The Sopranos, Mad Men, and with both of those shows, those shows weren't about figuring out the next step. Like, those shows were like a day in the day of like, here's a day of Tony Soprano, and it didn't leave

00;53;42;21 - 00;53;54;23
JON
in a cliffhanger of like, what's going to happen next week. It's almost just like. And no one really talked about those shows. But then, you know, at the same time, you have shows like Lost that were coming about and then Game of Thrones comes about in.

00;53;54;23 - 00;54;07;10
JON
Game of Thrones is all about that. So people would start talking about Don Draper's life from Mad Men, like, Oh, who is he? What's he going to do? And it's like, the show is never about that. The show is it's a day to day sort of thing.

00;54;07;23 - 00;54;19;09
JON
But all of that said, I thought when he read, Micky has to say next, but I'll leave a question to you guys just to play the game. Where do you think the book of Boba Fett is going to go?

00;54;19;23 - 00;54;20;07
JON
You know.

00;54;20;25 - 00;54;32;10
MICKEY
Yeah. I mean, I just can say like, I definitely feel like for me, like when we felt like the Arabic TV, I actually think, like, you know, you have this like sopranos is like the era of that's like prestige TV, and that was a separate thing.

00;54;32;10 - 00;54;37;18
MICKEY
And then you got into like 2010 and then you got peak. Like, Mad Men is almost the overlap.

00;54;38;00 - 00;54;39;02
JON
Between, Yeah, oh, I saw.

00;54;39;03 - 00;54;39;18
[[MULTIPLE]]
two.

00;54;40;05 - 00;54;55;06
MICKEY
Almost feels fine. Good. I feel bad for Mad Men because it was like it actually belonged ten years earlier and it wasn't belonged on Twitter. But I got sucked into like people talking about it and like, and now and now I feel like, yeah, that book about the facts squarely in the spike TV and how we are

00;54;55;06 - 00;55;04;10
MICKEY
expected to interact. And yeah, it's a good, quiet like it's weird because I don't know, like, I like watching these, but like they almost do feel like there is kind of almost this distinctness between each episode. And I'm not.

00;55;04;10 - 00;55;17;10
MICKEY
It doesn't feel like it's pushed me forward to any sort of like, there's no mystery. There's no mythology like of that kind of like lifestyle, which is kind of freeing and kind of nice. And one way I almost get like the feeling I was getting from because as a western Jew is like, I almost wonder if like

00;55;17;10 - 00;55;28;13
MICKEY
this Boba Fett and like, it's kind of almost fitting in with like these old school like that wild wild west show or something where it's not. I mean, there is an ongoing story about the same time. It's like it doesn't feel so like sucked into any thought of like greater mythology.

00;55;29;10 - 00;55;44;26
JOSH
Speaking of Wild Wild West, I I've not revisited, but I. I dip my toe into that show for the first time. Recently, I really I really dig that show a lot, and it bums me out that that at least people of our generation, we hear Wild Wild West.

00;55;44;26 - 00;55;50;14
JOSH
We think of the Will Smith movie, though the single from that movie is pretty catchy, you know?

00;55;50;14 - 00;55;51;17
[[MULTIPLE]]
Yeah, yeah.

00;55;52;20 - 00;55;53;26
JOSH
Anyway, closing thoughts.

00;55;54;06 - 00;56;07;00
MURRAY
I don't know exactly where it's going to head, but I feel like Boba Fett is going to get new Barca because he was he was like just hurled away by the hots. And then he was like, No, go be free.

00;56;07;00 - 00;56;22;27
MURRAY
And I think he's going to have loyalty. I think he's going to have the the bad ass raider. And I think in in Westerns, I don't know if anyone's seen the Western joke kid, right, written by Elmore Leonard and in it as a weapon of sorts.

00;56;22;28 - 00;56;38;08
MURRAY
Clint Eastwood, dry you like, uses a train and like drives it through building. And I feel like that moment's going to come with Boba Fett on a rain. Like, whatever this war that's going to happen, this gang war that's going to be like the big thing.

00;56;38;08 - 00;56;48;10
MURRAY
And I wish if that is the case, that it was spread out for, like longer than I don't know what was it? 25 seconds when he's like, Oh, some people write them in the movies like, I want to write it.

00;56;48;14 - 00;57;02;29
MURRAY
Yeah, go ahead. You kind can spread that out a little bit. But that's where I think I was sort of thinking like a Yojimbo thing at first. But like the man with no name trilogy where he's going to play both sides against each other.

00;57;03;09 - 00;57;18;21
MURRAY
But I feel like now with the death of the Raiders, it's going to be much different and he's going to get his own type of army rather than like out with them and have them fight each other. And then he's going to come in writing a rank war like a train through a building.

00;57;20;08 - 00;57;27;03
JOSH
I think, yeah, I I don't think I can do any better than that. I think that's I mean, that sounds that sounds pretty awesome to me.

00;57;27;14 - 00;57;28;08
[[MULTIPLE]]
Yeah. Okay.

00;57;28;26 - 00;57;30;14
JOSH
Any other thoughts, Mickey? Any thoughts?

00;57;30;23 - 00;57;41;12
MICKEY
Yeah. Like, like I said, my last name where I'm kind of like a I don't know if the loss is right here, but I'm just kind of like, Yeah, I don't I really don't know. I actually feel like I'm pretty good at predicting like, Oh yeah, this is where they want to go with this, and I'm I'm

00;57;41;12 - 00;57;50;15
MICKEY
not getting that. So, you know, I'm very curious. Like I said, it was so far, it was like a down for me this episode. So I'm interested to see where. The next episode goes and how it changes things up.

00;57;50;16 - 00;57;50;24
MICKEY
Yeah, and.

00;57;50;24 - 00;58;00;24
JOSH
Again, like I don't think that not knowing where it's going to go is a bad thing. Like, I'm actually kind of like, I'm interested in tuning in because I want to. I'm curious. I want to see where this is going to go.

00;58;00;24 - 00;58;05;18
JOSH
I really, yeah, I really don't. I really don't know, you know, which I think is kind of cool for a change.

00;58;05;19 - 00;58;20;16
JON
I was thinking about where the show might be headed at night, and it was funny because like, I think when the show started, I was like, Oh, this might be some sort of backdoor thing to bring in the Crimson Dawn organization or whatever, and maybe they'll still do that.

00;58;20;16 - 00;58;40;29
JON
But it doesn't quite seem like they're advertising that as much. But thinking back on this episode in particular and where the show could be going in a weird way, it's almost like a Star Wars Cowboy Bebop. Like, they are like accumulating all these, like very different people to join their crew, and they're going up against like these

00;58;40;29 - 00;58;57;26
JON
like underground triads or syndicates. And you have all these flashbacks to past trauma, kind of like Spike in Cowboy Bebop, and it's like, Oh, it's like, That's good like this. And it's like, I wonder if it's going to culminate kind of like what Murray was saying, where it's like it's going to be this big sort of thing

00;58;57;26 - 00;59;16;28
JON
where it's like the he's going to go against the head of the Pyke Syndicate is going to come in and is or there's going to be the woman warrior from the Tusken if she's still alive. You know, like this is like all these like moments of like revenge and then also the comedy of like very, very, very

00;59;16;28 - 00;59;29;14
JON
different people working together, which, by the way, we didn't get into in the end this episode, which I wish we kind of did. But Fennec three episodes in, I'm not sure she's really doing much besides just kind of hanging around.

00;59;29;23 - 00;59;38;17
JON
So I'm really curious to see what happens with her as an arc from here on out. They are very interesting and she's a very good actor.

00;59;38;18 - 00;59;51;18
MURRAY
They made a big point. And I don't know if I was just like hyper on it, but multiple times they made a big point to show that she has a knife in the butt of her rifle, like it came up multiple times as a thing.

00;59;51;18 - 01;00;03;10
MURRAY
So I'm wondering if that's going to come into play because even like it was something she used it to stab new back, right? And then she showed the same shot of her taking it out again to like hot wire the door or whatever.

01;00;03;10 - 01;00;10;21
MURRAY
But like the to the point that was like, why do they keep showing this? Like that she has this tool so.

01;00;11;06 - 01;00;13;10
JON
That literally stab him in the back or something.

01;00;13;18 - 01;00;22;19
MURRAY
That's like, that's not a character thing, like you're saying, but that is just something that is I was just thinking, like, what are they like? Why are they focusing on this?

01;00;24;03 - 01;00;25;26
[[MULTIPLE]]
Well, what's interesting? Yeah, yeah.

01;00;26;18 - 01;00;44;06
JOSH
I know Jon like you said, I think it's still possible that we'll get some kind of a Crimson Dawn Kira reveal. I think the thing with the hut's leaving again, I think, is a red herring. I think they're going to let them hash it out and swoop in later and and deal with who is left.

01;00;45;08 - 01;00;47;13
MURRAY
They're pulling the yojimbo, not Boba Fett.

01;00;47;16 - 01;00;50;11
[[MULTIPLE]]
Yeah, yeah. Right, right. I actually read.

01;00;50;11 - 01;00;54;23
JON
About that when it was occurring, I was like, Oh, they're the Yojimbo thing, but not Boba Fett. It's the bad guy.

01;00;54;23 - 01;00;55;13
MURRAY
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01;00;55;14 - 01;00;56;14
[[MULTIPLE]]
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01;00;56;26 - 01;01;12;19
JOSH
And what you're saying about like him getting this crew together, this motley crew of disparate characters, whatever, it's kind of like what he was talking about doing in the flashback about uniting all the Tuscan tribes, right? He's sort of he's not uniting, you know, the crime families.

01;01;12;19 - 01;01;15;20
JOSH
He's uniting the denizens of Tatooine.

01;01;15;24 - 01;01;16;26
JON
He's more like Robin Hood.

01;01;16;26 - 01;01;17;11
[[MULTIPLE]]
But yeah.

01;01;17;27 - 01;01;18;21
MURRAY
Or Bug's Life.

01;01;18;21 - 01;01;21;10
[[MULTIPLE]]
Guys together are.

01;01;21;23 - 01;01;23;13
MURRAY
Stronger than the grasshoppers.

01;01;23;16 - 01;01;37;09
JOSH
And on that note, I think that's I think that's a good place to close. I want to thank Jon, Mickey and Murray. And like we all said, I think we're all looking forward to see in episode four and I look forward to discussing it with you all.

01;01;37;14 - 01;01;38;02
JOSH
Have a good one.